Can light travel faster than itself?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of light, particularly photons, in various contexts such as vacuum, interactions with materials, and the implications for the observable universe. Participants explore concepts related to absorption, reflection, and the theoretical limits of light's travel distance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that in a vacuum, light can theoretically travel indefinitely, but in reality, it is subject to disturbances that limit its travel distance.
  • There is a discussion about whether disturbances destroy photons, with some asserting that photons are absorbed and their energy transferred to other materials.
  • Questions arise regarding the nature of interactions between photons and particles, with some participants proposing that these interactions may not involve force due to the massless nature of photons.
  • Others argue that electromagnetic fields carry momentum and can transfer it to massive particles, challenging the notion that photon interactions are force-less.
  • Participants express curiosity about the implications of light travel for SETI, suggesting that searching for light signals might be more effective than searching for sound.
  • There is a debate about whether the observable universe is limited by distance or time, with some asserting both factors are relevant.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumptions underlying astronomical measurements of the observable universe, with some participants expressing skepticism about the reliability of these methods.
  • Questions are posed about the fate of photons in a perfect vacuum, with acknowledgment that such conditions may not exist in reality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on several points, including the nature of photon interactions, the implications for the observable universe, and the reliability of astronomical measurements. Multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that assumptions and limitations exist in the discussion, particularly regarding the nature of vacuum, the behavior of photons, and the methodologies used in astronomy.

  • #61
So you move faster then it. Sorry this got into speed.
 
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  • #62
jonpaulv said:
Move me ten miles an hour inside of a subway train moving 60. I then am going 70. So move something inside of light. Find something that moves inside of light.

Light is an electromagnetic wave, an oscillation of the electric and magnetic fields. There is nothing physically moving, nor can you be "inside of light".
 
  • #64
Move the waves of light faster or have something that travels at its own speed that is attached to light. Making it move faster then the speed of light. So thinkof light as the train and as this sub level matter entity move along the light waves. thus using the light as a boost. I mean this is sci fi but still tangible if discovered.
 
  • #65
“We choose to examine a phenomenon which is impossible, absolutely impossible, to explain in any classical way, and which has in it the heart of quantum mechanics.” – Prof. Richard Feynman
 
  • #66
there’s a little thing called wave-particle duality, that shows by experimentation (meaning it’s not just some crazy idea, it can be observed) that light is both a wave and a particle. Not that sometimes it’s a wave and sometimes it’s a particle, but in fact that light is both a wave and a particle simultaneously.
 
  • #67
something can move through the particles and thus is moving faster then the light.
 
  • #68
Do you know if the vertical movement of the waves is created at a faster pace then the horizontal?
 
  • #69
Create an atom that travels through the emr of light. using the emr as let's say its land or train and then have it run on the emr. Thus traveling faster then the emr. But you would have to have the finishing point of the emr because at some point the train ie light emr would end and it would catch up to the end of it. But if we can do that with preexisting light then we can use it to travel. travel through the lights and bounce from one area to the next utilizing preexisting light.
 
  • #70
jonpaulv said:
Move the waves of light faster or have something that travels at its own speed that is attached to light. Making it move faster then the speed of light. So thinkof light as the train and as this sub level matter entity move along the light waves. thus using the light as a boost. I mean this is sci fi but still tangible if discovered.

None of this is possible. It isn't even sci-fi, it's been disproved by General Relativity and experiments involving GR. It doesn't even make any sense in regards to basic physics.

jonpaulv said:
there’s a little thing called wave-particle duality, that shows by experimentation (meaning it’s not just some crazy idea, it can be observed) that light is both a wave and a particle. Not that sometimes it’s a wave and sometimes it’s a particle, but in fact that light is both a wave and a particle simultaneously.

Yes, I am well aware of the duality of light and matter. And no, it isn't both simultaneously, it is a particle or a wave depending on how you observe it.

jonpaulv said:
something can move through the particles and thus is moving faster then the light.

No, it is not.

jonpaulv said:
Do you know if the vertical movement of the waves is created at a faster pace then the horizontal?

There is no vertical and horizontal movement of the waves. The electric and magnetic fields are oscillating, not moving up and down. They have vectors, but this is not the same as saying the field is moving up and down or side to side.

Jonpaulv, ALL of this is explained if you read the articles I linked and then go to the articles on Special Relativity, General Relativity, and Quantum Mechanics. Please, do not post any more questions until you have read over those thoroughly enough to at least understand the most basic items, such as the speed of light being the absolute speed limit in the universe.
 
  • #71
jonpaulv said:
Create an atom that travels through the emr of light. using the emr as let's say its land or train and then have it run on the emr. Thus traveling faster then the emr. But you would have to have the finishing point of the emr because at some point the train ie light emr would end and it would catch up to the end of it. But if we can do that with preexisting light then we can use it to travel. travel through the lights and bounce from one area to the next utilizing preexisting light.

This is not possible. Light and matter do NOT interact this way.
See the article on Special Relativity on wikipedia for more on the speed of light.
 

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