Can Precession Explain the Stability of High-Speed Ice Skaters?

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    Ice Precession
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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the concept of precession in relation to the stability of high-speed ice skaters, questioning whether precession can be applied to ice skating and how it compares to other scenarios, such as biking. Participants examine the mechanics of stability and the role of angular momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question if precession can occur in ice skating, specifically regarding the spinning motion of the skater rather than the skates themselves.
  • There is a suggestion that torque may be a factor in precession, but the exact relationship to ice skating is unclear.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the presence of spinning angular momentum in the context of ice skating.
  • Another participant draws a parallel between leaning on a bike to turn and leaning on ice skates, seeking to understand the mechanics involved.
  • Some participants argue that precession may not significantly contribute to the stability of high-speed ice skaters compared to low-speed skaters.
  • It is noted that moving quickly does not inherently provide stability against falling, and the dynamics of stability are complex, particularly in relation to human movement on ice.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of precession in ice skating stability, with no consensus reached on whether it plays a significant role or not. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the mechanics of stability in high-speed versus low-speed skating.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not provided specific scenarios or detailed definitions, leading to ambiguity in the discussion. The complexity of dynamic stability and its dependence on various factors is acknowledged but not fully explored.

gabriel barata
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does it take wheels for precession to happen? can precession be applied to ice skates, for example?
 
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Welcome to PhysicsForums. :smile:

Assuming you mean precession of a spinning ice skater (not of their skates), it should happen. What makes a gyroscope precess? Spinning angular momentum is one part; what is the other part that causes precession? What could you do to an ice skater in a spin that would cause this effect? :smile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...precession.gif/220px-Gyroscope_precession.gif

1612136941635.png
 
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berkeman said:
Welcome to PhysicsForums. :smile:

Assuming you mean precession of a spinning ice skater (not of their skates), it should happen. What makes a gyroscope precess? Spinning angular momentum is one part; what is the other part that causes precession? What could you do to an ice skater in a spin that would cause this effect? :smile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...precession.gif/220px-Gyroscope_precession.gif

View attachment 277225
Would it be the torque?
I don't get where is the spinning angular momentum, like in the wheels.

thanks for your reply :smile:
 
gabriel barata said:
I don't get where is the spinning angular momentum, ...
How should we know? You have not described any specific scenario.
 
A.T. said:
How should we know? You have not described any specific scenario.
A person leans to the side riding his bike to make the turn. I wanted to know about a person leaning on ice skates to make the turn, just like the person on the bike.
 
gabriel barata said:
I wanted to know about a person leaning on ice skates to make the turn, just like the person on the bike.
I don't think precession plays a role in this case.
 
A.T. said:
I don't think precession plays a role in this case.
So a high speed ice skater is no more stable than a low speed ice skater?
 
gabriel barata said:
So a high speed ice skater is no more stable than a low speed ice skater?
Moving fast by itself does not create stability against falling over to the side.

But the mechanisms of dynamic stability can be very complex, especially for the human body and its interaction with the ice. When you bring steering into it, it gets complicated, even for simple bikes:

 
Last edited:

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