News Can Religious Institutions Discriminate in Hiring Practices?

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The forum hosted by Rick Warren showcased Barack Obama and John McCain, highlighting their differing approaches to faith and politics. Obama aimed to dispel misconceptions about his religion while addressing contentious issues like abortion and gay marriage, receiving mixed reactions from the audience. McCain, aligning more closely with evangelical views, faced criticism for his statements on faith-based hiring practices and national security. Both candidates navigated complex questions, with McCain's responses often eliciting stronger applause despite concerns about pandering to the religious right. The event underscored the intersection of faith and political strategy in the presidential race.
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Anyone watching the Evangelical political forum on tv tonight with Obama & MCCain?

Forum on faith puts Obama-McCain back in spotlight

The contest now regains some intensity, starting with the two-hour forum hosted by the minister Rick Warren at his megachurch in Orange County, Calif.

Warren, nationally known for his sermons and best-selling book "The Purpose-Driven Life," will be the only questioner. Obama will appear during the first hour and McCain will take the second.

The forum carries opportunities and risks for both candidates. It gives Obama a chance to discuss his Christian faith and counter inaccurate beliefs that he is a Muslim. But it also may highlight his positions on issues such as supporting abortion rights, which Warren and many other evangelicals oppose.

McCain's positions are more in line with evangelical Christians. But he often seems uncomfortable talking about his faith and other personal beliefs, and the Christian right shows less enthusiasm for him than for past GOP contenders.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080816/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_religion;_ylt=Av.J8ssC6bLiHy4A27FOQ8kGw_IE

Also worth watching, click the link on the left Related Video "Religion Counts".

From Politico

Democratic and Republican presidential nominees meeting at a megachurch to face questioning from an evangelical preacher.

Today’s forum in southern California, hosted by best-selling author Rick Warren, will be remarkable not just as the first joint appearance for John McCain and Barack Obama but as a new marker at the crossroads of religion and politics.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080816/pl_politico/12574;_ylt=AqE.nG69j2SPdXpM3lPsCA2tOrgF

The event can be seen from 8 to 10 p.m. on the cable news channels. It's also available via computer at MySpace.com/Impact, ReadersDigest.com and SaddlebackCivilForum.com.
 
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Looks like this starts at 7PM CST. I'm very interested in who sells their soul in the worst way in order to suck up to the religious right. I already know they will both sell out, I just want to see how sickening the display is.

I have taken my blood pressure meds. Ooops, it's started.
 
McCain will suck up shamelessly to the religious right. Obama's only job is to make idiots realize that he is a Christian and not a Muslim, as the chain emails are claiming. McCain has the bigger problem because the religious right is getting pretty sick of being played for patsies by the GOP, and they may be willing to vote Obama if they perceive that Obama's policies (not just abstinence) might reduce the rate of abortion. We'll see...
 
Ok, only 20 minutes in and Obama has given himself over to Jesus Christ as his savior. How disapointing.
 
For those without a TV, you can watch the forum live at cnn.com and msnbc.com (oops...in addition to the links provided in the OP).
 
Ok, Obama is doing very well.

He tapped danced around the abortion issue a bit too much. He stuck his foot in his mouth on the gay marriage issue by defining marriage as a "union between a man and a woman", then after loud applause realized he'd just screwed up and tried to backtrack some. He did finally come around in support of stem cell research, showing a bit of backbone. Kudos to him on that.

All in all, he gets a thumbs up so far.
 
Good round for Obama. Ok, now for McCain.
 
Evo said:
He stuck his foot in his mouth on the gay marriage issue by defining marriage as a "union between a man and a woman", then after loud applause realized he'd just screwed up and tried to backtrack some.
Actually, I don't think he backtracked at all. He said exactly what I've heard him say in several previous occasions.

http://pewforum.org/religion08/compare.php?Issue=Gay_Marriage

Obama says that he personally believes that "marriage is between a man and a woman" but also says that "equality is a moral imperative" for gay and lesbian Americans. He advocates the complete repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) because "federal law should not discriminate in any way against gay and lesbian couples, which is precisely what DOMA does." He supports granting civil unions for gay couples, and in 2006 he opposed a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. In March 2007, Obama initially avoided answering questions about a controversial statement by a U.S. general that "homosexual acts" are "immoral," but Obama later told CNN's Larry King, "I don't think that homosexuals are immoral any more than I think heterosexuals are immoral."
 
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hmm, how is MCcain doing?
 
  • #10
The people in the audience are loving him.
 
  • #11
Ok, McCain started off on the wrong foot pandering to the host and his church, but he's come back. His strong stance on needing nuclear power is good.

Obama answered a couple of these questions by simply saying "I opposed the war in Iraq", McCain actually had good answers.
 
  • #12
Obama is being neutral and trying to attract as many voters as he can from different classes. Is MCcain doing the same? Or is he appearing as the one with the strong views and stances?
 
  • #13
I have been following this off and on all day (CNN, NBC and whatever was on C-Span with Huckabee) and, honestly, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I voted for either of them.
 
  • #14
Going after religion ...

Obama is being neutral and trying to attract as many voters as he can from different classes. Is MCcain doing the same? Or is he appearing as the one with the strong views and stances?

Both are jerks (Obama is little less :rolleyes:). I only listened to McCain for few seconds (terrorists), and all he seemed to be doing was spreading hate and fear.
 
  • #15
Oh, "BOO, BOO". I'll explain in a bit. Bad on abortion, I am pro-choice.

All of this is all just based on my personal opions, BTW, it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the candidate's qualifications.
 
  • #16
MCcain just said : "No one is allowed to get away with killing thousands of American innocents"...Mr.MCcain, do you think going to war and killing thousands of Iraqii innocents is okay?
 
  • #17
AhmedEzz said:
MCcain just said : "No one is allowed to get away with killing thousands of American innocents"...Mr.MCcain, do you think going to war and killing thousands of Iraqii innocents is okay?

:smile:
I stopped watching at that point .
 
  • #18
AhmedEzz said:
Obama is being neutral and trying to attract as many voters as he can from different classes. Is MCcain doing the same? Or is he appearing as the one with the strong views and stances?
McCain is appearing stronger - also in my opinion, sometimes talking like a third grader.

When asked about how to deal with evil, Obama talked about recognizing and confronting it, but with humility. And recognizing that a lot of evil is commited in the name of defeating evil. He talked about evil abroad and evil in our cities and towns.

McCain's answer to the same question was that he will chase Osama bin Laden to the gates of Hell and destroy al Qaeda. And he added that the primary battleground in the fight against evil is in Iraq.

Circumspect clapping to Obama's answer; thunderous applause to McCain's.

What else is new?
 
  • #19
and they didn't find Osama, they didn't find WOD, they only found some Iraqii innocents and loads of oil...I'm sure MCcain likes that.
 
  • #20
AhmedEzz said:
and they didn't find Osama, they didn't find WOD, they only found some Iraqii innocents and loads of oil...I'm sure MCcain likes that.

I don't see any strong opinion in his post, just an observation. But, I agree that Obama's answer is more rational. Even though I didn't listen to him but I also had the same answer.

McCain's is more like loading teachers with guns to solve school shootings.
 
  • #21
I don't consider the category of "evil" to be a major one.

What appalled me was when asked the question of if it's ok if faith based organizations should be restricted in their hiring practices if they take federal money and McCain fired off with "ABSOLUTELY NOT!". He just nailed his own coffin shut, IMO.

Ok, I am being too opinionated.

Let's discuss this after the show in an open and unheated manor. I apologize for my outbursts.
 
  • #22
This is unbelievable, he wants America to help tragedies in the world by being a "shining city on a hill" ?! wth is he talking about? seriously?
 
  • #23
I thought it was pretty bad when Mccain listed "the 3 wisest people he has ever known" as

1. General David Petraeus
2. A soldier who got his skull fractured in Iraq
3. The CEO of Ebay

I didn't see Obama's answer, but hopefully it displayed some knowledge of history and or the meaning of the word "wisdom."

I also disliked McCain's answers to the privacy question, that we should have as much privacy "as possible." Given his paranoid tendencies about national security, this means that he doesn't believe in privacy at all!
What appalled me was when asked the question of if it's ok if faith based organizations should be restricted in their hiring practices if they take federal money and McCain fired off with "ABSOLUTELY NOT!"

I agree that this statement, along with the boldface assumption that faith-based organizations are worthwhile supporting with federal dollars, is tremendously anti-American.
 
  • #24
He is also talking about how the Russians should respect the territorial integrity of Georgia, and how Russia attack is an act of aggression...what about Iraq ? was that an act of "self-defense" ? but how so? did Iraq threat war on America?
 
  • #25
I'm glad this doesn't go on around here. :rolleyes:
 
  • #26
Let's keep the discussion to the actual questions and answers in the forum, and not speculate on things such as is the war in Iraq justified, etc... these are not issues in the forum that was just aired.

I want to know what McCain's statement of "Georgia converted to Christianity in the 3rd Century" had to do with anything.

His speech about home schooling and vouchers sent a chill up my spine as it feeds into the segregation of children from the real world.
 
  • #27
Ok, if you haven't watched the entire forum, don't post. This thread is strictly to do with the questions and answers tonight.

I would also like to limit it to Americans that are voting. For those from other countries, you can voice opinions in other threads, but I would like this discussion to be among American voters. Did any American voters watch?

I actually think the pastor of that church did a good job of remaining neutral and asked some very good questions.
 
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  • #28
Evo said:
Ok, if you haven't watched the entire forum, don't post. This thread is strictly to do with the questions and answers tonight.

I would also like to limit it to Americans that are voting. For those from other countries, you can voice opinions in other threads, but I would like this discussion to be among American voters. Did any American voters watch?

I actually think the pastor of that church did a good job of remaining neutral and asked some very good questions.


Ok, I will shut up.
 
  • #29
No one watched? Gokul?

<chirp, chirp>

Oh well, it's just the Presidency of the United States, nothing important. :rolleyes:
 
  • #30
AhmedEzz said:
Ok, I will shut up.
:smile: You'll have your chance later. I just want to see if any Americans watched.

Wow, this is depressing.
 
  • #31
i have been forced to watch by my wife who is more intelligent and fair minded than i am. i just assume i know what they are going to say.

i was at first worried that mccain got so many ovations, but later decided he was pandering to his base as evo said, and i think this will hurt him.

i.e. he seems to be making the mistake that the tv audience equals the very right wing audience in the church.
 
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  • #32
Ok, so 2-3 Americans on this forum have watched. I'm not sure of Gokul's voting status. Since he seems to have a better understanding of American politics than most Americans, he is questionable.
 
  • #33
I didn't watch it, but am trying to play catch up by watching some clips provided by CNN and MSNBC.

The links are on the home pages of MSNBC (couldn't get the player link to work) and at CNN:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

http://www.cnn.com/video/?iref=videoglobal

I'm sure they don't encompass the entire forum, hopefully the full video will become available at some point.

From what I have watched so far, it sure seemed that McCain was the crowd favorite. But I feel, from what I saw, that Mr. Warren was a very fair and balanced moderator.
 
  • #34
chasely said:
I didn't watch it, but am trying to play catch up by watching some clips provided by CNN and MSNBC.

The links are on the home pages of MSNBC (couldn't get the player link to work) and at CNN:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

http://www.cnn.com/video/?iref=videoglobal

I'm sure they don't encompass the entire forum, hopefully the full video will become available at some point.

From what I have watched so far, it sure seemed that McCain was the crowd favorite. But I feel, from what I saw, that Mr. Warren was a very fair and balanced moderator.
The tv airings will be repeated and I'm sure it will continue to be available on the internet.

I have to admit it was not what I had expected and Mr Warren did an outstanding job. He's better than some professional tv moderators of past political debates.
 
  • #35
It's on CNN right now and supposed to be on Fox news in 10 minutes (10PM Central).
 
  • #36
Though I disagree with his stance (it seems an odd question to me too), I can't let this go:
Crosson said:
I agree that this statement, along with the boldface assumption that faith-based organizations are worthwhile supporting with federal dollars, is tremendously anti-American.
That's patently untrue. What it is is unconstiutional to discriminate against organizations on the basis of religion. It is also unconstitutional to fund them because of their religion. But if you're handing out money to non-profits or letting them use public facilities, you must do it without discrimination on the basis of religion.
 
  • #37
Not American - can't vote.
 
  • #38
Oh - American, but didn't watch. (the Phillies are on!)
 
  • #39
I have it on Fox now and plan to watch it (9 pm here) if it comes on. From what I gather from the earlier posts it seems Obama is also trying to wear religion on his sleeve, which is unfortunate but may be necessary in the US, I guess.

(Note: it is starting as I'm tying this.)

I hope Obama doesn't let me down too much; he seems to be trying to redefine himself as a complete "centrist," a strategy that didn't work for Gore or Kerry.
 
  • #40
Just watched the CNN critique and they say McCain was the clear winner. They said Obama was too wishy washy and avoided taking a firm stand, which is also how I felt. He really needs to take a firmer stand, aside from coming back stronger on the stem cell issue, he just danced around.

They said Obama is really going to have to change and be more assertive and stop trying to avoid taking sides on issues.

Obama really does need to tell us where he stands instead of well, you could say this or you could say that, I'd hate to come out and actually take a stand and possibly upset someone.

McCain was praised for taking a stand even if it might be unpopular.

Also, Obama was dinged for being too verbose and not coming to the point.
 
  • #41
Evo said:
No one watched? Gokul?

<chirp, chirp>

Oh well, it's just the Presidency of the United States, nothing important. :rolleyes:

Gee. Is it November yet?

I'd rather watch Phelps go for #8, and besides I can wait for the news shows to tell me whether or not anything important was said.
 
  • #42
Evo said:
Also, Obama was dinged for being too verbose and not coming to the point.

I think that this is his major "problem". He takes much too long to make his points, and sometimes it makes him appear that he is avoiding the question.

I don't have cable, so I guess I will see the rest of it when it becomes available on the net.

Chase
 
  • #43
I watched all but the first 5 minutes (Obama was on then).

I LIKE nuanced positions...I don't see the world in simple black-and-white terms. I thought Obama's answers were significantly more thoughtful than McCains's. Obama's answers about the Supreme Court were excellent, especially about the abortion issue.

(Full disclosure - I was an Obama supporter before this event, and I'm fully pro-choice.)

McCain did much better than I expected, though. Yet I thought most of his answers were pandering - the reference to home-schooling, and the many, many stories referencing his experiences as a POW.

But I understand most American voters want short, concise answers to complicated questions. If a candidate can answer in one (preferably a monosyllabic) word, that makes them look decisive.

Much as I hate to admit it, I'd have to give it to McCain, but just by a little bit.
 
  • #44
lisab said:
But I understand most American voters want short, concise answers to complicated questions. If a candidate can answer in one (preferably a monosyllabic) word, that makes them look decisive.

Some time ago I read in a thread that Obama (probably) flipped the bird at Hillary. Short and decisive enuff in my book. :biggrin:

EDIT: Here is the thread: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=229826
 
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  • #45
Evo ?

Is it permitted to open a parallel thread on this topic for non-Americans only?

We have opinions too.
 
  • #46
if AhmedEzz is not going to participate than that would be fine.
 
  • #47
If you want to join, it's fine to just post... all over topically. Please...
That helps some trouble-shooting problems resolved fully or partially...
 
  • #48
What I find interesting, is to watch it live and uncut and then compare what I heard with my own ears, with the slants and comments the various news stations cut and paste together.

Some stations seem very biased to me.lol @ AhmedEzz
 
  • #49
russ_watters said:
Though I disagree with his stance (it seems an odd question to me too), I can't let this go: That's patently untrue. What it is is unconstiutional to discriminate against organizations on the basis of religion. It is also unconstitutional to fund them because of their religion. But if you're handing out money to non-profits or letting them use public facilities, you must do it without discrimination on the basis of religion.

We mostly agree on this point Russ, but I also want to point out that their is a more subversive tactic at work: McCain and the Republicans are trying to push the idea that faith-based charities are more effective, and so they should get disproportionate federal dollars for that reason. I dispute this conclusion, and instead of operating on flimsy evidence generated by a few phone surveys, I would rather do the fair thing which is to support only secular institutions with federal dollars. That way no one religious group is getting unfairly "established."
 
  • #50
Alfi said:
Evo ?

Is it permitted to open a parallel thread on this topic for non-Americans only?

We have opinions too.
Ok, as long as you have watched the two hour program and keep the discussion to what was discussed, no outside opinions.
 

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