Can someone determine what this iteration works out to, where x'

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the iteration defined by the equation x' = (1 + x) / (b (1 + x) + a, starting with x=1, where a and b are variables. Participants explore the nature of this iteration, its convergence, and potential simplifications, including connections to continued fractions and quadratic equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the nature of the iteration and suggest it may relate to continued fractions.
  • One participant proposes that with specific values for a and b (both equal to 1), the limit x_infinity can be calculated as (sqrt(5) - 1) / 2.
  • Another participant derives a quadratic equation for x_infinity as x_inf^2 + a x_inf - 1 = 0, leading to a specific solution dependent on a.
  • A different equation is presented for x_inf with a=1, expressed as (x_inf^2 + x_inf) b - 1 = 0, yielding another form for x_inf.
  • One participant combines previous equations to propose a more general form for x_inf, suggesting it involves (1 - a)(1 - b) to account for other cases.
  • Another participant notes that the original equation can be rearranged to show that x' converges to x at the limit, connecting back to earlier findings.
  • A final contribution presents the quadratic form bx^2 + (a + b - 1)x - 1 = 0 and suggests that if the sequence is increasing, the positive root should be taken.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various approaches and hypotheses regarding the iteration and its solutions, with no consensus reached on a definitive solution or method for finite n.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the solutions derived depend on specific values for a and b, and there are unresolved aspects regarding the behavior of the sequence for finite n.

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Can someone determine what this iteration works out to, where x' becomes x again each time, starting with x=1 and a and b are variables?

x' = (1 + x) / (b (1 + x) + a)
 
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grav-universe said:
Can someone determine what this iteration works out to, where x' becomes x again each time, starting with x=1 and a and b are variables?

x' = (1 + x) / (b (1 + x) + a)

This looks like it is going to be some kind of continued fraction, but it might end up simplifying to be something less complicated. Are you aware of continued fractions?
 


chiro said:
This looks like it is going to be some kind of continued fraction, but it might end up simplifying to be something less complicated. Are you aware of continued fractions?
Yes, thanks, but it doesn't seem to work out that way.
 


Here's something that might help. If I put in a=1 and b=1, it works out to x_infinity = (sqrt(5) - 1) / 2.
 


Ahah. With b=1, the solution for x_infinity seems to be

x_inf^2 + a x_inf - 1 = 0

x_inf = a (sqrt(4 / a^2 + 1) - 1) / 2
 


The solution for x_inf with a=1 is

(x_inf^2 + x_inf) b - 1 = 0

x_inf = [sqrt(b) sqrt(b + 4) - b] / (2 b)
 


Okay, combining those two equations with (x_inf^2 + a x_inf) b - 1 = 0 still only gives the correct result for a=1 or b=1 only, so I figured there had to be something like (1 - a) (1 - b) in there somewhere to make the rest zero. The full solution for x_inf works out to be

(x_inf^2 + a x_inf) b - 1 - (1 - a) (1 - b) x_inf = 0

x_inf^2 b - (1 - a - b) x_inf - 1 = 0

x_inf = [1 - a - b + sqrt((1 - a - b)^2 + 4 b)] / (2 b)

Now I just need the solution for x_n with finite n.
 


Um, yeah. It was brought to my attention elsewhere that where x_inf converges, we have x' = x at the limit, so we can just rearrange the original equation with

x' = (1 + x) / (b (1 + x) + a)

x (b (1 + x) + a) - (1 + x) = 0

That works out just the same as the middle equation in the last post. Too bad I spent much of the day getting that far. :) Oh well. I might be able to use x_inf for my purposes, although finite x would still be very handy.
 


That equation is just a quadratic:
[tex]bx^2+ (a+ b- 1)x- 1= 0[/tex]
and so, by the quadratic formula,
[tex]x= \frac{1- a- b\pm\sqrt{(a+ b- 1)^2- 4b}}{2b}[/tex]
If you can show that the sequence, starting with x= 1, is increasing, you know that that [itex]\pm[/itex] must be +.
 

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