Can the Matrix Element of a+a^+ be Suppressed in Resonance Raman Measurements?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the exciton-photon interaction in the context of resonance Raman measurements, specifically addressing the matrix element of the operator \( a + a^+ \) and its implications in calculations involving photon states. The scope includes theoretical aspects of quantum mechanics and second quantization.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to derive the exciton-photon interaction using second quantization and references a specific paper for the Hamiltonian formulation.
  • Another participant questions how the transition from the matrix element \( M_{ex-op} = \langle \Psi^f | H_{el-op} | 0 \rangle \) to \( M_{ex-op} = \sum_k Z^{n*}_{k_{c},k_v}D_k \langle 0 | a + a^+ | 0 \rangle \) occurs, noting the absence of operators acting on electrons.
  • Some participants suggest that the expectation value \( \langle 0 | a + a^+ | 0 \rangle \) depends on the photon state, with one indicating that it would vanish in a photon vacuum and possibly assume a coherent state.
  • Another participant elaborates on the mathematical steps involved in the derivation, emphasizing the use of anti-commutation relations and the conditions under which certain terms vanish.
  • A later reply critiques the treatment of the matrix element of \( a + a^+ \) as potentially being oversimplified, suggesting that in resonance Raman, the photon field can be treated classically and that the expectation value can relate to the intensity of the laser field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of the matrix element \( \langle 0 | a + a^+ | 0 \rangle \) and its implications in the context of resonance Raman measurements. There is no consensus on whether the assumption of this matrix element equating to 1 is justified, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the appropriate treatment of photon states.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include assumptions about the photon state and the dependence on the definitions of the operators involved. The mathematical steps leading to the simplifications are not fully resolved, and the implications of treating the photon field classically are not universally accepted.

hesky
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Please help me, I need to derive exciton-photon interaction.
Here, we are using second quantization. Please refer to this paper http://prb.aps.org/abstract/PRB/v75/i3/e035405
Hamiltonian of electron-photon is
H_{el-op}=\sum_k D_k c^+_{kc}c_{kv}(a+a^+)

c^+_{kc}c_{kv} are creation of electron to conduction band and annihilation electron in valence band, respectively. (a+a^+) are photon annihilation and creation operator.
Exciton wave function is
|\Psi^f\rangle=\sum_k Z^n_{k_{c},k_v}c^+_{k_{c}}c_{k_v}|0\rangle
Where Z is weighting coefficient, kc is electron state (conduction band), kv is hole state (valence band), and |0\rangle is ground state (all electrons occupy valence) band.

Matrix element of exciton-photon is defined as
M_{ex-op}=\langle\Psi^f|H_{el-op}|0\rangle

M_{ex-op}=\sum_k Z^{n*}_{k_{c},k_v}D_k\langle 0|a+a^+|0\rangle
My question is, how can we prove that \langle 0|a+a^+|0\rangle=1 to get

M_{ex-op}=\sum_k Z^{n*}_{k_{c},k_v}D_k
 
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hesky said:
My question is, how can we prove that \langle 0|a+a^+|0\rangle=1 to get

This depends on the photon state you use. With a photon vacuum, the expectation value would vanish. I suppose they assume some coherent state, however, I have no access to that article.
 
How did you get from
hesky said:
M_{ex-op}=\langle\Psi^f|H_{el-op}|0\rangle
to
hesky said:
M_{ex-op}=\sum_k Z^{n*}_{k_{c},k_v}D_k\langle 0|a+a^+|0\rangle
?

Where have all the operators acting on the electrons gone?
 
This depends on the photon state you use. With a photon vacuum, the expectation value would vanish. I suppose they assume some coherent state, however, I have no access to that article.
http://flex.phys.tohoku.ac.jp/~rsaito/rsj/j1180.pdf
 
Cthugha said:
How did you get from

to
?

Where have all the operators acting on the electrons gone?
Just put all the operators, and then take anti-commutation relations several times
\left \langle i|c^+_k c_l|i \right \rangle=\delta_{kl} n_i

\left \langle i|c_k c^+_l|i \right \rangle=\delta_{kl} (1-n_i)

\langle\Psi^f|H|0\rangle=\sum_{k,k'} Z^{n*}_{k_{c},k_v}\langle 0|c^+_{kv}c_{kc}c^+_{k'c}c_{k'v}(a+a^+)|0\rangle

=\sum_{k,k'} Z^{n*}_{k_{c},k_v}\langle 0|c^+_{kv}\delta_{k,k'}(1-n_{kc})c_{k'v}(a+a^+)|0\rangle

with n_{kc}=0 since at initial state no electron occupies conduction band

=\sum_{k} Z^{n*}_{k_{c},k_v}\langle 0|c^+_{kv}c_{kv}(a+a^+)|0\rangle

=\sum_{k} Z^{n*}_{k_{c},k_v}\langle 0|n_{kv}(a+a^+)|0\rangle

n_{kv}=1
 
hesky said:
My question is, how can we prove that \langle 0|a+a^+|0\rangle=1 to get

M_{ex-op}=\sum_k Z^{n*}_{k_{c},k_v}D_k


I think that they are sloppy here and suppressed the matrix element of a+a^+. Resonance Raman involves rather high power fields and the expectation value of a+a^+ in that field can be expressed in terms of the squareroot of the intensity of the laser field (and maybe some constant involving it's frequency). Basically, the photon field can be treated classically.
For the consideration of the relative intensity of different Raman lines, the absolute intensity does not matter.
 

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