Can time be a generalized coordinate?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether time can be considered a generalized coordinate in the context of classical dynamics. Participants explore theoretical implications and practical examples related to this concept.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a textbook that states generalized coordinates can include quantities other than position, such as energy or length squared, questioning the inclusion of time.
  • One participant argues that time is not a quantity in the same sense as other generalized coordinates, suggesting it serves as a parameter that describes the dynamics.
  • Another participant mentions a specific problem involving force as a function of position and time, implying that this leads to a conclusion that time cannot be treated as a generalized coordinate.
  • Some participants note that the mainstream view is that time cannot be a generalized coordinate, while also acknowledging a minority perspective in literature that considers time and energy as conjugate variables in an extended phase space, though this approach is described as having pitfalls and not being widely adopted.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the status of time as a generalized coordinate, with some asserting it cannot be treated as such and others referencing alternative theoretical frameworks that suggest otherwise.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of the mainstream view and the potential for alternative interpretations, but does not resolve the debate over the applicability of time as a generalized coordinate.

Visceral
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The title pretty much says it. According to my book, Classical Dynamics by Thornton and Marion, generalized coordinates can be quantities other than position such as energy or length squared, but what about time?
 
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Visceral said:
The title pretty much says it. According to my book, Classical Dynamics by Thornton and Marion, generalized coordinates can be quantities other than position such as energy or length squared, but what about time?
I guess, time is not a quantity in the sense of your book. It is the parameter parameterizing the dynamics.
 
A. Neumaier said:
I guess, time is not a quantity in the sense of your book. It is the parameter parameterizing the dynamics.

I was just working on a problem the other day that had force as a function of position and time, and had to derive the potential and then the lagrangian and hamiltonian. So essentially, the answer is no?
 
nlsherrill said:
I was just working on a problem the other day that had force as a function of position and time, and had to derive the potential and then the lagrangian and hamiltonian. So essentially, the answer is no?
The main stream view is indeed ''no''. But there is a trickle of literature (I don't remember precise references now) which works in extended pase spase where time and energy are anotherr pair of conjugate variables. However, this approach has its own pitfalls and is not widely used because of that.
Certainly it is not meant in your case unless your book explicitly discusses extended phase space.
 

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