Can Time-Invariant Force Laws Accurately Predict Orbits?

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The discussion centers on the implications of time-invariance in force laws, specifically Newton's law of gravity and Coulomb's law. Both laws lack explicit time parameters, leading to the assumption that they apply universally, which can result in nonsensical predictions in dynamic situations. The introduction of Maxwell's equations and general relativity later provided a framework for incorporating time dependence in electromagnetic and gravitational contexts. While Newton's equations can approximate static situations, they do not fully align with the predictions of general relativity, as evidenced by phenomena like Mercury's orbit precession. This highlights the limitations of time-invariant force laws in accurately predicting orbits in varying conditions.
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In other words, where does this assumption become mathematically explicit? Is it because there is no parameter representing time in Newton's universal law of gravity?

If so, what about other force laws like Coulomb's law for charges? I don't see any time embedded in that.
 
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Amin2014 said:
Is it because there is no parameter representing time in Newton's universal law of gravity?
Yes, the law of gravity itself says nothing about a delay. And that's how it must be interpreted to get elliptical orbits.
 
Amin2014 said:
In other words, where does this assumption become mathematically explicit? Is it because there is no parameter representing time in Newton's universal law of gravity

If so, what about other force laws like Coulomb's law for charges? I don't see any time embedded in that.

Yes, the assumption is in the way that ##r## appears in Newton's law with no time dependence, and yes, the same is true of Coulomb's law. Imagine that a charged particle or a gravitating mass were to suddenly appear anywhere in the universe at time ##T## - if we take those two laws at face value, there would be a non-zero force everywhere in the universe at any time after ##T##. That doesn't make a lot of sense, so instead of taking them at face value we accept that they don't apply in time-varying situations.

Maxwell's laws, discovered in 1861, supplied the necessary understanding of time dependence for electricity and magnetism. General relativity, a half-century later, did the same for gravitation.
 
Nugatory said:
Yes, the assumption is in the way that ##r## appears in Newton's law with no time dependence, and yes, the same is true of Coulomb's law. Imagine that a charged particle or a gravitating mass were to suddenly appear anywhere in the universe at time ##T## - if we take those two laws at face value, there would be a non-zero force everywhere in the universe at any time after ##T##. That doesn't make a lot of sense, so instead of taking them at face value we accept that they don't apply in time-varying situations.

Maxwell's laws, discovered in 1861, supplied the necessary understanding of time dependence for electricity and magnetism. General relativity, a half-century later, did the same for gravitation.
THANK YOU! So the more general equations reduce EXACTLY to the two mentioned equations for time-invariant situations?
 
Amin2014 said:
So the more general equations reduce EXACTLY to the two mentioned equations for time-invariant situations?

They do not. For example, the Schwarzschild solution to the Einstein field equations of general relativity describes the static time-independent gravitational field of a spherical mass, just as does Newton's ##F=Gm_1m_2/r^2## - but the solution is slightly different and as a result the orbits predicted by Newton's theory do not quite match those predicted by GR and actually observed (google for "Mercury orbit precession").
 
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