Can You Determine the Gradient of an Unknown Function?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of determining the gradient of an unknown function without traditional differentiation methods. Participants explore various mathematical approaches and the accuracy of these methods, particularly in relation to secant lines and tangent angles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Mubashir proposes a method to calculate the derivative of a function using angles formed by secant lines, claiming it can yield accurate results without traditional differentiation.
  • Some participants express concern about the use of document attachments, suggesting that sharing files in formats like ".doc" is not advisable due to security risks.
  • One participant critiques Mubashir's approach, arguing that averaging the angles of secants does not yield the tangent angle and that the introduction of a factor of 10^10 complicates the method without clear benefit.
  • Mubashir defends his method, stating that it provides excellent approximations for derivatives, particularly for quadratic functions, and claims it can be generalized to higher-degree polynomials.
  • Another participant challenges the validity of the assumption that the tangent angle can be derived from averaging secant angles, asserting that this is not a correct interpretation of the tangent concept.
  • There is a discussion about the limitations of differentiation itself, with some participants suggesting that all methods of finding derivatives are approximations and that the concept of "delta x" approaching zero is inherently flawed.
  • Mubashir mentions that his technique yields results very close to traditional differentiation for certain cases, but acknowledges discrepancies for higher-degree polynomials.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of Mubashir's method. There are multiple competing views regarding the accuracy and applicability of the proposed technique, with some participants supporting it and others challenging its foundations.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made in the proposed method, particularly concerning the behavior of tangent angles and the implications of using large scaling factors like 10^10. The discussion highlights the complexity of approximating derivatives and the potential inaccuracies involved.

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  • #31
Well, We do know the height, but we don't have any type of polynomial ruling the motion... That was what I meant, using the word function was a mistake :)
I'm sorry
 
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  • #32
mubashirmansoor said:
Well, We do know the height

Yep, that's what I mean. You have to be able to compute (or measure off of a graph, or something) f(x+\Delta x ) and f(x-\Delta x) in order to use those approximations.
 
Last edited:

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