Centrifugal force from GR perspective

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of centrifugal force and gravity from the perspective of General Relativity (GR). Participants explore the nature of inertial forces, the distinction between real and fictitious forces, and how these concepts relate to gravitational effects within the framework of GR.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that Wikipedia's definition of centrifugal force as a "real" force while gravity is "fictitious" is misleading and incorrect.
  • Others argue that both centrifugal force and gravity can be viewed as fictitious forces resulting from accelerated reference frames in GR.
  • A participant mentions that the distinction between real and fictitious forces is primarily interpretative and not crucial in physics.
  • One participant emphasizes that in GR, gravitational and inertial forces are treated equally, suggesting they can both be considered either real or fictitious.
  • Another participant references Einstein's views, indicating that inertial forces like Coriolis and centrifugal forces should be regarded as "inertial forces" rather than categorizing them strictly as real or fictitious.
  • There is a suggestion that the Coriolis force can be interpreted as a gravitational force under certain conditions, particularly in rotating frames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the classification of centrifugal force and gravity, with no consensus reached on whether one is real and the other fictitious. Multiple competing views remain on the interpretation of these forces within the context of GR.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the definitions and interpretations of forces may depend on the specific reference frames considered, and there are unresolved nuances regarding the implications of these interpretations in GR.

  • #31
yogi said:
CHI Meson - you might want to read Feynman's short expose' on the subject in Volume 1 of his lectures on Physics. He questions whether gravity is a pseudo force like inertia since these forces are always proportional to mass. He ruminates that perhaps gravity is only a pseudo force that results from the fact we do not live in a Newtonian inertial frame.
Thanks, I have read it. This is what my initial viewpoint was primarily based on, and which was countered by the Wikepedia definition that has since been shown to be at fault.

I always turn to Feynman, but it has been over thirty years and a new position could have been solidified since then. I'm glad to know I'm not in the wrong tree (not very high up that tree mind you, but at least it's the right one).
 
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  • #32
I also am a Feynman fan - some years ago I wrote an article based upon Feynman's idea showing that Hubble expansion leads to a divergent volumetric acceleration of magnitude equal to the gravitational constant.
 
  • #33
Fictious or inertial forces are dangerous. They can kill you! They differ from real forces in that they do not occur in action/reaction pairs. F=ma in an inertial frame only. If body A has an acceleration a relative to an inertial frame and body A' has a mass m and an acceleration a' relative to body A. Then for body A' in the inertial frame one has F= m(a+a') . In the accelerated frame, riding A, one has F-ma =ma'. The fictitious force -ma has no reaction partner and is in the opposite direction to the acceleration a. In relativity the acceleration is the covariant derivative of velocity and is made of two pieces: the usual coordinate partials plus a Christoffel piece which accounts for how the coordinate directions change from point to point. As others have said fictitious forces like centrifugal, coriolus, and the Newtonian mg arise from this second piece.
 

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