Chain falling out of a horizontal tube onto a table

  • Thread starter Thread starter NTesla
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary
The discussion revolves around the mechanics of a chain falling out of a horizontal tube onto a table, specifically addressing the calculation of the speed of the chain's end as it exits the tube. Initial and final mechanical energy equations are presented, but discrepancies arise between the calculated speed and the book's answer, prompting a deeper examination of energy conservation principles. Participants highlight the complexities of tension in the chain and the implications of inelastic collisions with the table, suggesting that mechanical energy is lost during the process. The conversation also touches on the need for careful consideration of boundary conditions and the assumptions made in the problem statement. Ultimately, the discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding the dynamics of falling chains and the limitations of energy-based approaches in such scenarios.
  • #91
NTesla said:
No retardation condition is fulfilled when no motion is happening. So, yes, when the chain is not moving at all, then Tension is more than when it is moving. So, this statement is true.


I'm still trying to understand this.

Let's say that before the chain starts to move, the tension at the rightmost point of the purely horizontal portion of the chain is ##T_{when\,static}##.
Now, let's say, the chain is in moving condition, then the tension at the same location is ##T_{when\,moving}##.
Let ##F_{on\,element}## be the leftward force on the element which is just at the bend.
then ##T_{when\,moving}## < ##T_{when\,static}## as long as there is a horizontal chain to talk about.
When you say, that 👇

It means that equation wise, it would be like this:
##T_{when\,moving}## = ##T_{when\,static}## - ## F_{on\,element} ## . ...........................................(i)
And from earlier posts, we have established that magnitude of ## F_{on\,element} ## = ##\lambda v^{2}##.

But, ##T_{when\,static}## = ##\lambda hg##, and ##T_{when\,moving}## = ##\lambda h(g - \frac {dv}{dt})##
So, ##T_{when\,moving}## = ##T_{when\,static}## - ##\lambda h \frac {dv}{dt}## ...........................(ii)

Clearly, equations (i) and (ii) are not same, the last term that is.

At this point I'm certain that I'm misunderstanding the critical point of view/ information about what you've written. But I've read your above post multiple times, and have spent much time thinking about it, but I still don't understand it.
The retardation force on the horizontal portion is not the only reason the tension reduces. Consider a massless string but with a mass on each end. The tension is reduced when accelerating even though there is no retardation force. This corresponds to the ##-\lambda\frac{dv}{dt}## term in the vertical.
The correct comparison is with the massless string with two point masses model, though the vertical equation may be complicated by table impact.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
462
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
Replies
30
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
994
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K