Challenge IX: Dealing with Mod 1 solved by mfb

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around a mathematical challenge involving sequences defined by a natural number n and a positive real number a. Participants explore the behavior of the sequence \{a\}, \{an\}, \{an^2\},... particularly focusing on conditions under which the sequence does not eventually become 0 and exceeds 1/n infinitely many times. The conversation also touches on follow-up questions regarding the conditions for the sequence to remain below 1/n infinitely many times.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if the sequence does not eventually become 0, it will exceed 1/n infinitely many times, with various cases considered based on the value of a.
  • Others argue that the sequence's behavior can be analyzed through the properties of fractional parts and their dependence on previous values.
  • A later reply introduces a more abstract perspective using concepts from topology, suggesting that iterating a certain function on specific sets leads to crossing certain thresholds infinitely often.
  • Calculations are presented to explore the conditions under which the sequence remains below 1/n infinitely many times, with specific examples provided to illustrate the findings.
  • Another participant shares a visual approach to the problem, discussing the implications of representing a as an infinite decimal in base n and how this affects the sequence's behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the original question has been addressed, but there is ongoing exploration regarding the follow-up questions. Multiple competing views remain on the conditions for the sequence to be below 1/n infinitely many times, and the discussion remains unresolved in this regard.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations and assumptions are presented without full resolution, particularly regarding the specific sets and conditions discussed. The implications of base representations and their effects on the sequence's behavior are also noted but not fully explored.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in mathematical sequences, properties of fractional parts, and those exploring advanced topics in number theory and topology may find this discussion beneficial.

micromass
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This challenge was proposed by Boorglar. Many thanks to him!

Let n be a natural number larger than 1, and a be a positive real number.
Prove that if the sequence [itex]\{a\}, \{an\}, \{an^2\},...[/itex] does not eventually become 0, then it will exceed 1/n infinitely many times.

Here {x} means x - floor(x).
 
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As x-{x} is an integer, {an}={{a}n} for natural numbers n.
This implies that it is sufficient to consider 0<=a<1. In addition, every value in the sequence depends on the previous value (and n) only.
As a special case, {0n}=0, for a=0 there is nothing to show.

Let ai={ani}.

  1. case ai=1/n or ai=0: Our sequence will end at 0, nothing to show.
  2. case 0<ai<1/n: There is a smallest k such that 1/n<aink<=1. If aink=1, our sequence becomes 0 and there is nothing to show. Otherwise, {aink} exceeds 1/n.
  3. case 1/n < ai < 1: Good, we found another element that exceeds 1/n. {an} will be one of the three cases again.

Each a which does not end up in case 1 has to stay in case 2 and 3, and case 2 always leads to case 3 in a finite number of steps. Therefore, case 3 gets visited infinitely many times.



Follow-up question: can we find general conditions such that the sequence is below 1/n infinitely many times?
This is not true for all (a,n), as the example a=1/2, n=3 shows.
 
^ This looks right to me.

A rephrasing toward some generalization.
Let [itex]G:=\{z\in\mathbb C:\enspace |z|=1\}=\{e^{i\theta}\}_{\theta\in\mathbb R}[/itex], a nice (compact abelian) topological group under multiplication. Fixing [itex]n,[/itex] let [itex]f:G\to G[/itex] be the [itex]n^{\text{th}}[/itex] power map, a group covering.

Let [itex]A:= \left\{e^{i\theta}:\enspace 0<\theta< \frac1n\right\}\subseteq G.[/itex] Note that [itex]f|_A[/itex] is injective.

Let [itex]B:=\{z\in G: \enspace \nexists k\in \mathbb N \text{ with } f^k(z)=1\},[/itex] the set of elements that don't have finite order divisible by [itex]n[/itex].

We want to show that iterating [itex]f[/itex] on any element of [itex]B[/itex] crosses through [itex]G\backslash A[/itex] infinitely many times. By the inductive argument mfb used (which works because [itex]f^{-1}(B)=B[/itex] and [itex]f[/itex] is surjective), it's enough to show that iterating [itex]f[/itex] on any element of [itex]B[/itex] crosses through [itex]G\backslash A[/itex] at least once.

So an equivalent formulation is the following:

Show that there does not exist a nonempty [itex]S \subseteq A[/itex] such that [itex]f(S)\subseteq S.[/itex]

[Note that such [itex]S[/itex] would be a subset of [itex]B[/itex] as well, as it excludes [itex]1[/itex].]

I think an interesting question is: What are some sufficient conditions on [itex]G[/itex] and [itex]f:G\to G[/itex] to ensure that for every connected [itex]A\subseteq G\backslash\{1\}[/itex] on which [itex]f[/itex] is injective, there does not exist a nonempty [itex]S \subseteq A[/itex] such that [itex]f(S)\subseteq S[/itex]?
 
Regarding the follow-up question, here are some calculations:

Let k be the greatest natural number such that ##A_k = \{a × 3^k\} < \frac{1}{3}##.
Let ##x = A_k##.

##0 < x < \frac{1}{3}##
##\{3x\} ≥ \frac{1}{3}##
##\frac{1}{9} ≤ x < \frac{1}{3}##

##1 ≤ 9x < 3##
##\{9x\} ≥ 1/3##
##\frac{4}{3} ≤ 9x < \frac{6}{3}##, ##\frac{7}{3} ≤ 9x < \frac{9}{3}##
##\frac{4}{27} ≤ x < \frac{6}{27}##, ##\frac{7}{27} ≤ x < \frac{9}{27}##

And so on, giving:

##A_k \in \{ x \in (0, \frac{1}{3}) : \forall k ≥ 0, \forall n ≥ 2, x \in \bigcup \; [ \; (1 + 3k)/3^n, (3 + 3k)/3^n \; ) \; \}##

This is an interesting set. I don't know that much about it but the smallest number it contains is ##\frac{1}{6}##, the limit of this sequence: ##\frac{1}{9}, \frac{4}{27}, \frac{13}{81}, \frac{40}{243}, \frac{3^n - 1}{6.3^n}##. But this means ##\{y : \frac{1}{3} < y < \frac{1}{2} \land \{y × 3^n\} ≥ 1/3 \} = ∅##, for if there was such a y, ##\frac{y}{3}## would be a candidate for ##A_k## above, but ##\frac{y}{3} < \frac{1}{6}##.

So there is an interesting void between ##\frac{1}{3}## and ##\frac{1}{2}## where no number is such that the fractional part is never below 1/3.
 
Last edited:
Congratulations to mfb for giving a nice solution to the problem.

I'm wondering if there are nice solutions to the follow-up questions by mfb and economicsnerd. Verty already came up with something nice though.

Thanks everybody for their contributions!
 
Since the original question seems to have been solved, I might just as well post my own solution, which is basically the same as mfb's but more visual I guess.

Write a as a infinite decimal in base n. Then [itex]a = a_0.a_1a_2a_3...[/itex] where [itex]0 ≤ a_i ≤ n - 1[/itex]. Multiplying by n is equivalent to shifting the decimal point towards the right, and taking the fractional part changes to 0 all digits left of the decimal point. So basically
[itex]\{an^k\} = 0.a_{k+1}a_{k+2}a_{k+3}...[/itex].

If a is a rational number with denominator which divides n, then (as in base 10 for 1/2 and 1/5) the base n expansion eventually terminates and all remaining digits will be 0 which corresponds to the sequence becoming 0. Otherwise, if the base n expansion doesn't terminate then there will always be some non-zero digit no matter how far. When shifting, these non-zero digits will eventually arrive at the [itex]a_1[/itex] position and we have a number larger than [itex]0.100000...[/itex] which is 1/n. Since there are infinitely many nonzero digits, the sequence exceeds 1/n infinitely many times as stated.

For the follow-up, for the sequence to be below 1/n infinitely many times is equivalent to the number a containing infinitely many 0's in its base n expansion. So for example, if n = 3, then the numbers for which the sequence does not get below 1/n infinitely many times are those that end with an infinite sequence of 1's and/or 2's, such as:
0.10120(12)... or 0.2012112111211112111112... This set looks a bit similar to the Cantor set.
 

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