Change in field strength if two variables are incremented at the same time

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the change in gravitational field strength when both mass and radius are incremented simultaneously. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of this change and its physical implications, considering both theoretical and experimental contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the formula for gravitational field strength and computes the change due to small increments in mass and radius, questioning the validity of summing these changes.
  • Another participant suggests that the overall change can be justified using a Taylor series expansion, noting that cross terms will be small compared to linear terms.
  • A participant confirms that they derived the same result by substituting the incremented values into the original equation.
  • Several participants question the physicality of changing mass, with one suggesting that solar phenomena could lead to mass changes, while another emphasizes the relevance of considering variations in mass for experimental error analysis.
  • One participant acknowledges that changing mass in a practical sense would require conducting experiments with different masses.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of agreement on the mathematical approach to summing changes, but there is no consensus on the physical implications of changing mass. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the practical aspects of mass variation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of understanding both the mathematical and physical contexts of changing mass and radius, but do not resolve the implications of these changes in real-world scenarios.

etotheipi
Given the example g = \frac{GM}{R^{2}}, we may compute the change in field strength if the mass is changed by a small amount dM to be$$dg = \frac{G dM}{R^{2}}$$and also if R is changed by dR,$$dg = \frac{-2 GM dR}{R^{3}}$$If, however, both the mass and radius are changed by a small amount at the same time, the source I'm using states that the overall change in field strength is simply the sum:$$dg = \frac{G dM}{R^{2}} - \frac{2 GM dR}{R^{3}}$$I was wondering if anyone could explain why this is a valid step. Thank you!
 
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etotheipi said:
Given the example g = \frac{GM}{R^{2}}, we may compute the change in field strength if the mass is changed by a small amount dM to be$$dg = \frac{G dM}{R^{2}}$$and also if R is changed by dR,$$dg = \frac{-2 GM dR}{R^{3}}$$If, however, both the mass and radius are changed by a small amount at the same time, the source I'm using states that the overall change in field strength is simply the sum:$$dg = \frac{G dM}{R^{2}} - \frac{2 GM dR}{R^{3}}$$I was wondering if anyone could explain why this is a valid step. Thank you!

If you make two small changes, then the overall change is the sum of those changes.

You could look at this a little more rigorously by using a taylor series expansion. The cross terms in ##dMdR## will be small compared to the linear terms in ##dM## and ##dR##.
 
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PeroK said:
If you make two small changes, then the overall change is the sum of those changes.

You could look at this a little more rigorously by using a taylor series expansion. The cross terms in ##dMdR## will be small compared to the linear terms in ##dM## and ##dR##.

I just had a go replacing M and R with M + dM and R + dR and then worked out the resulting change, and ended up obtaining that result you stated with ##dMdR##. Thanks!
 
hmm, how do you (physically) change mass? (other than purely mathematically)
 
Henryk said:
hmm, how do you (physically) change mass? (other than purely mathematically)
Solar wind, or just radiation. I believe that some stars occasionally emit shells if matter fir one reason or another (you'd be better asking in Astronomy and Astrophysics for details). As long as the mass distribution remains spherically symmetric then when a shell of mass passes your radius, its gravity no longer affects you (look up the Shell Theorem).
 
Henryk said:
hmm, how do you (physically) change mass? (other than purely mathematically)

You don't necessarily need to change the mass. You might simply want to look at the effect of small variations in mass (to consider experimental error, for example) on the result of your calculations.
 
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PeroK said:
You don't necessarily need to change the mass. You might simply want to look at the effect of small variations in mass (to consider experimental error, for example) on the result of your calculations.
Ok, that's different.
 
Henryk said:
hmm, how do you (physically) change mass? (other than purely mathematically)
All this theory relates to experiments that could verify it. Changing the mass would mean running the experiment again with a different mass. Quite acceptable.
 

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