Charge density calculations of resonance hybrids of arenium ion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the charge density calculations of resonance hybrids of arenium ions, specifically focusing on the bond character between carbon atoms in various resonance structures and the implications for charge distribution among these atoms. The scope includes theoretical considerations and calculations based on resonance structures.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the bonds between certain carbon atoms (A and B, D and E) have a higher percentage of double bond character compared to others (B and C, C and D) based on the resonance structures.
  • Another participant questions the calculation of negative charge on the carbon atoms, noting that the cationic nature implies positive charges rather than negative ones.
  • A participant attempts to justify their calculations of charge based on the delocalization of pi-bond electrons and the contribution of resonance structures, proposing that the average charge on certain carbon atoms can be calculated as negative, leading to a net positive charge after accounting for neutrality.
  • There is a reiteration of the calculation method, emphasizing the delocalization of charge and the resulting positive charges on specific carbon atoms.
  • One participant acknowledges a simpler approach to deducing the charge distribution directly from the resonance structures, suggesting that the previous method may be unnecessarily complicated.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the calculations of charge density and the interpretation of resonance structures. There is no consensus on the correctness of the charge calculations, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to determine charge distribution.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of charge calculations and the assumptions made regarding the equal contribution of resonance structures. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the implications of resonance on charge distribution and the nature of bond character.

tasnim rahman
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In the diagram attached, the 3 resonance structures of arenium ion bonded to H electrophile are shown.I labelled the carbon atoms in one of the structures for convenience.

From the diagram, the A and B carbons, and D and E carbons, have a double bond between them for two of the resonance structures; whereas the B and C carbons, and C and D carbons, have a double bond between them for only one of the resonance structures. From this can we safely assume that in the resonance hybrid, the bond between the A and B carbons, and D and E carbons have a high percentage of double bond character; compared to the bond between the B and C carbons, and C and D carbons, which have a higher percentage of single bond character?

Also since the bond between A and B carbons (also between C and D carbons) are double bonds for 2 of the 3 resonance structures can we say that in the resonance hybrid, the charge between the A and B carbons is (2/3)(2) (as the single bond remains fixed and the 2 electrons of double bond become delocalized)? And that each of the carbon atoms has a charge of -(2/3).
 

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help anyone?:confused:
 
I don't understand completely how you get the numbers in the last paragraph. You have a cation, so I would expect all charges on the carbons to be positive, not negative. What do you mean with charge "between" the A and B carbon?

In general, you can make only qualitative statements from the consideration of possible valence bond structures, i.e. that some bonds are stronger than others or that there is probably more charge on one atom than on the other. For qualitative statements you would have to know how much each of the valence bond structures actually contributes and take into account also ionic VB structures with several charged atoms.
 
For the last paragraph, I was trying to calculate the negative charge possessed by each carbon atom, if we assume that each resonance structure contributes equally and that the 4 pi-bond electrons are delocalized over the structure; based on the resonance structures.

From the diagram, there is a pi-bond between the A and B carbon atoms for two of the three resonance structures, indicating that the bond between A and B in the real molecule has a high degree of double bond character. For calculation of the charge possessed by A and B, due to the delocalization of the pi-bond electrons; two electrons form a pi-bond between A and B for two out of three resonances, therefore the average negative charge possessed by the two atoms, through their bond (other than the single bond), in the real molecule, is (2) (–\frac{2}{3})= –(\frac{4}{3}), with each atom possessing –(\frac{2}{3}). Both atoms, A and B, lack –(\frac{1}{3}) charge from becoming neutral, giving each of them a net positive charge of +(\frac{1}{3}). Same argument goes for the other carbons with the net result that A, C and E carbons each gain a net positive charge of +(\frac{1}{3}), and the B, D and F carbon atoms remain neutral (Note: B and D carbon also possesses some charge density from bonding with C carbon). This also causes delocalization of the positive charge.

Right?
 
tasnim rahman said:
From the diagram, there is a pi-bond between the A and B carbon atoms for two of the three resonance structures, indicating that the bond between A and B in the real molecule has a high degree of double bond character. For calculation of the charge possessed by A and B, due to the delocalization of the pi-bond electrons; two electrons form a pi-bond between A and B for two out of three resonances, therefore the average negative charge possessed by the two atoms, through their bond (other than the single bond), in the real molecule, is (2) (–\frac{2}{3})= –(\frac{4}{3}), with each atom possessing –(\frac{2}{3}). Both atoms, A and B, lack –(\frac{1}{3}) charge from becoming neutral, giving each of them a net positive charge of +(\frac{1}{3}). Same argument goes for the other carbons with the net result that A, C and E carbons each gain a net positive charge of +(\frac{1}{3}), and the B, D and F carbon atoms remain neutral (Note: B and D carbon also possesses some charge density from bonding with C carbon). This also causes delocalization of the positive charge.

Right?

Yes, but isn't that a rather complicated way to obtain that atoms A, C, E have 1/3 of a positive charge when all resonance structures have equal weight? This can be directly read off from the structures.
 
...yeah..I kind of figured that out later...:biggrin:

Thanks DrDu.
 

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