Charging an object by friction

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    Charging Friction
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the quantification of charge that can be accumulated on an object through the triboelectric effect, specifically focusing on a 1 cm diameter thermocol sphere rubbed with fur. Participants explore the factors influencing charge accumulation, including capacitance and breakdown voltage.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Avijit inquires about the approximate charge that can be accumulated on a thermocol sphere through rubbing, seeking an order of magnitude estimate.
  • One participant explains that the charge is more dependent on the sphere's self-capacitance and the breakdown voltage of air rather than the material of the sphere itself.
  • The capacitance of a conducting sphere is described using the formula C = 4 * Pi * epsilon * R, where R is the radius of the sphere.
  • It is suggested that the maximum charge can be calculated using the relationship Q = C * V, leading to an estimate of approximately 1.1 microcoulombs for the 1 cm sphere.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the charge a material can store is contingent upon its capacitance, which is influenced by the object's size and shape, and that charging continues until the charge begins to leak.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the charge accumulation is influenced by capacitance and breakdown voltage, but there is no consensus on the exact amount of charge that can be accumulated or the implications of material properties.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that surface roughness may affect the maximum charge that can be stored, as it alters the effective radius of curvature in the capacitance calculation.

avjt
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Hi All.

I'm trying to get a quantitative sense of how much charge we can put on an object by rubbing: the 'triboelectric effect'.

To put it specifically, suppose I have a sphere of diameter 1 cm, made of thermocol (polystyrene). How much charge, approximately, can I reasonably expect to put on it by rubbing it with, say, some fur?

I'm looking for just an 'order of magnitude' -- like, is 1 microcoulomb reasonable? How about 10 uC? Or 100 uC? Or will it be lower -- like 100 nC or 10 nC...?

Thanks for the help...

Avijit
 
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Odd as it may seem but your answer is not about the material your sphere is made of but its 'self capacitance' and the breakdown voltage of the surrounding air.

Since you mention coulombs I will do this in SI units.

Your sphere will carry its charge largely on the surface like a conductor even though it is an insulator. The capacitance of a conducting sphere is given by

C = 4 * Pi * epsilon * R where Pi =3.14 etc, epsilon is the permittivity of
space = 8.854.. * 10^-12 Farads / metre and R is the radius of the sphere in metres.

In practice you can charge the sphere to the breakdown voltage of air by repeated rubbing (think of a Van De Graaf generator). The breakdown voltage of air is 30 Kvolt per inch of radius of the smallest curvature of the discharging electrode as a rule of thumb
so V=3* 10^4 * R / (2.54 * 10^-2) if the radius of your sphere is in metres.

Lastly the charge in coulombs Q on a capacitance C charged to a voltage V is given by

C= Q/V so Q=C * V

Putting this all together you get

Q= (4 * Pi * epsilon * 3 *10^4)* R^2/(2.54 ^-2)

Putting in the numbers we get Q = 1.1 * 10^-4 * R^2

so for your 1 cm sphere we get Q= 1.1 * 10^-6 Coulombs ie 1.1 micro Coulombs

Note that this is the maximum as any surface roughness will greatly decrease this (the bumps have smaller radius of curvature to R in the above equation is reduced so greatly decreasing the charge.
 
Thanks sambristol. Interesting to know that the charge will be independent of the material the ball is made of.

Cheers,

Avijit
 
the charge a material can store depends upon the capacitance of that material ... that is how charge it can store before it starts leaking it out (in simpler terms) . u can keep on charging that object until it starts leaking the charges ...
the capacitance is all that matters and it only depends on the size and the shape of your object ...hope it helps ... :)

vishal
 

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