Checking Diagram for H2, CO, CH4 Reactor Flow Ratios

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a chemical engineering problem involving the calculation of flow ratios in a reactor system producing methanol from hydrogen and carbon monoxide, with a focus on the composition of feed and purge streams. Participants are examining a diagram related to the process and discussing the necessary calculations for flow rates and compositions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants confirm the layout of the diagram appears correct.
  • There is a suggestion that a basis is needed to calculate flow rates since none are provided.
  • Participants discuss whether the stream coming off the separator has the same composition as the recycled stream, with some asserting that the composition is the same but the flow rates differ.
  • One participant proposes using the extent of reaction method instead of a multiple unit balance method for solving the problem.
  • Concerns are raised about the labeling of mole fractions versus molar flows in the diagram, with a suggestion to solve for missing stream flows and mole fractions based on the completion of the reaction.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the necessity of solving for mole fractions, suggesting that using input-output balances could suffice for their calculations.
  • A participant acknowledges an oversight in their review of another's calculations and expresses agreement with the approach taken.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the correctness of the diagram layout and the need for a basis for calculations. However, there is disagreement regarding the necessity of solving for mole fractions and the methods to be used for calculations, indicating multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings regarding the distinction between mole fractions and molar flows, as well as unresolved details about the flow rates and compositions of various streams in the reactor system.

CannonSLX
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I'm about to attempt this question but beforehand I was hoping if someone could just check if my diagram is correct on the basis of the question;

A feed stream contains H2, CO and a trace of CH4. Pure CH3OH is produced by means of a reactor (CO + 2H2→CH3OH), separator and recycle with purge to remove the non-reactive CH4. Feed stream composition is 67.3 mol% H2, 32.5 mol% CO and 0.2 mol% CH4. Recycle CH4 concentration is held at 3.2 mol% CH4. What is the ratio of the feed stream to purge stream flowrates?

Diagram: https://i.gyazo.com/3552bd8e88abae971ea4686ced8a05b9.png

Would I be right in thinking that I'd also need to take a basis in order to calculate any flow rates as none have been provided.

Also does the stream coming off the separator have the same composition as the recycled one ?
In my diagram I was not sure if the arrow coming off the separator also had to have its own flow rate and compositions if it were the same as the recycled stream.

Thanks in advance for any help :)
 
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CannonSLX said:
I'm about to attempt this question but beforehand I was hoping if someone could just check if my diagram is correct on the basis of the question;
The layout of the diagram looks correct.
A feed stream contains H2, CO and a trace of CH4. Pure CH3OH is produced by means of a reactor (CO + 2H2→CH3OH), separator and recycle with purge to remove the non-reactive CH4. Feed stream composition is 67.3 mol% H2, 32.5 mol% CO and 0.2 mol% CH4. Recycle CH4 concentration is held at 3.2 mol% CH4. What is the ratio of the feed stream to purge stream flowrates?

Diagram: https://i.gyazo.com/3552bd8e88abae971ea4686ced8a05b9.png

Would I be right in thinking that I'd also need to take a basis in order to calculate any flow rates as none have been provided.
Sure.
Also does the stream coming off the separator have the same composition as the recycled one ?
Yes.
In my diagram I was not sure if the arrow coming off the separator also had to have its own flow rate and compositions if it were the same as the recycled stream.
The composition is the same, but the flow rate isn't.
 
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Chestermiller said:
The layout of the diagram looks correct.

Sure.

Yes.

The composition is the same, but the flow rate isn't.
Thanks :)

Would I use extent of reaction method to solve instead of multiple unit balance method ?
 
How would you interpret what is required of you?
 
Chestermiller said:
How would you interpret what is required of you?
Well, as its asking for the ratios all I have done it calculated the flow rate for the purge stream and divided the feed stream by the purge stream.
This is what I have done;
https://i.gyazo.com/f8da4c1adac28ccb28c7aa3af095e1db.png
 
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I don't think M4 should be labeled 1 CH3OH mol, and M5, M6, and M7 shouldn't have 0.032 CH4 mol, unless you understand that these are mole fractions and not molar flows. You need to solve for the missing stream flows and mole fractions, given that, in the reactor, the reaction goes to completion, with either CO or H2 being the limiting reactant (probably CO).
 
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Chestermiller said:
I don't think M4 should be labeled 1 CH3OH mol, and M5, M6, and M7 shouldn't have 0.032 CH4 mol, unless you understand that these are mole fractions and not molar flows. You need to solve for the missing stream flows and mole fractions, given that, in the reactor, the reaction goes to completion, with either CO or H2 being the limiting reactant (probably CO).
Yes I understand that they are mole fractions :)
I don't see why its necessary to solve for the mole fractions ? If I take a basis and use input=output can I not simply do as I have done in the image ?
As in Feed:purge 16:1
 
CannonSLX said:
Yes I understand that they are mole fractions :)
I don't see why its necessary to solve for the mole fractions ? If I take a basis and use input=output can I not simply do as I have done in the image ?
As in Feed:purge 16:1
I agree. I should have read over what you did more carefully. Sorry.
 
Chestermiller said:
I agree. I should have read over what you did more carefully. Sorry.
No worries, thanks anyways :)
 

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