Chemistry: How do I write an ionic equation for this reaction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around writing the ionic equation for the reaction between barium hydroxide and phosphoric acid. Participants explore the complexities of dissociation, the role of spectator ions, and the representation of weak acids in ionic equations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in writing the ionic equation for the reaction between Ba(OH)₂ and H₃PO₄, noting that their attempts have been unsuccessful.
  • Another participant questions whether spectator ions need to be removed for the net ionic equation, clarifying that they should be kept for the plain ionic equation.
  • There is a discussion about the reaction between H⁺ and OH⁻, with uncertainty about whether they produce water.
  • Participants note that phosphoric acid is a weak acid and does not completely dissociate, while barium hydroxide is a strong base and completely dissociates.
  • One participant mentions that a 1M solution of phosphoric acid is approximately 8% dissociated, raising concerns about how to represent this in the equation.
  • Another participant suggests that simplifying assumptions may be necessary, proposing to treat H₃PO₄ as undissociated for the sake of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to handle the dissociation of phosphoric acid and the treatment of spectator ions. There is no consensus on the correct approach to writing the ionic equation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of their classroom learning, noting that they have not covered the complexities of partial dissociation in detail. This may affect their ability to approach the problem effectively.

HunterDX77M
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Homework Statement



I was doing this problem for HW online, that asks to write the ionic equation for a reaction, but I'm completely stuck. After using all my attempts (i.e., I can no longer submit the answer even if it is right, :frown: ) I still couldn't get the right answer. We've only done very simple ionic equations in class, so I couldn't apply what we did in class to the problem. Anyway here is the reaction to make an ionic equation for:

Ba(OH)_2 (aq) + H_{3}PO_{4} (aq) \rightarrow

Homework Equations



Not applicable.

The Attempt at a Solution



Here is the last answer I attempted. Wolframalpha told me that the compound phosphoric acid (H3PO4) was "very soluable" so I separated it into ions. That was about all it was able to help me with. I assumed that the phosphate separated from the hydrogen atoms to combine with the barium and create an insoluable solid (according to my textbook, any non-alkali metal combined with phosphate is insoluable). So with all that, I thought the ionic equation would logically be:

3H^{+}(aq) + 2{PO_4}^{-3}(aq) + 3Ba^{+2}(aq) + 2OH^{-}(aq) \rightarrow Ba_3(PO_4)_2(s) + 3H^{+}(aq) + 2OH^{-}(aq)

This is wrong as my fifth and final attempt told me . . . The super vague reason the system gives me for this being wrong is that "Your answer contains an ambiguous or incomplete reaction equation. Check all the components on the reactant-side of the equation. Check all the components on the product-side of the equation." If you need anymore information on my thought process or anything like that, please ask. Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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Do you need to remove the spectator ions?
 
BloodyFrozen said:
Do you need to remove the spectator ions?

For the net ionic equation, yes, I have to remove the spectator ions. But for this equation (just the plain old ionic equation) I must keep the spectator ions.
 
H++OH- - don't you think they will react?

Phosphoric acid is soluble, but it is a weak acid, so it is not dissociated completely.

Barium hydroxide is weakly soluble, but it is a strong base, so it is completely dissociated.

It is a little bit tricky if you ask me. Not clear to me what they can expect.
 
Borek said:
H++OH- - don't you think they will react?

Umm, do they make water? I'm not sure.

Borek said:
Phosphoric acid is soluble, but it is a weak acid, so it is not dissociated completely.

How do you represent something that only partially dissociates in the equation, though?
 
HunterDX77M said:
Umm, do they make water? I'm not sure.

Yes.

How do you represent something that only partially dissociates in the equation, though?

That's why I have no idea what kind of answer they expect. 1M solution of phosphoric acid acid is approximately 8% (H++H2PO4-) and 92% H3PO4. It is not something you can write in a simple way.
 
Borek said:
1M solution of phosphoric acid acid is approximately 8% (H++H2PO4-) and 92% H3PO4.

Wow we definitely didn't learn that in class. I think based on other problems we're supposed to make the simplifying assumption that the compounds either completely separate or don't separate at all. Is there any way to do this problem with that in mind?
 
The closest would be to assume molecular (undissociated) H3PO4.
 

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