Cherenkov radiation from neutral composite particles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of neutral composite particles emitting Cherenkov radiation, particularly focusing on the conditions under which this might occur, such as polarization and energy levels. Participants also explore related topics, including the magnetic dipole moments of neutral mesons and the interactions of neutrons with protons and electrons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that neutral composite particles could emit Cherenkov radiation if they are polarized strongly enough and moving fast enough, though this is contested.
  • Others argue that the disintegration of composite particles due to scattering in the medium would occur before any Cherenkov photons could be emitted.
  • A participant questions whether color confinement could prevent disintegration, suggesting that sufficient energy might still allow for Cherenkov radiation.
  • There is a discussion about whether neutral mesons possess magnetic dipole moments, with some expecting they do unless symmetry prevents it.
  • Participants discuss the implications of spin-0 mesons having a symmetry that may prevent them from having a magnetic dipole moment, contrasting this with the magnetic dipole moment of hydrogen atoms.
  • One participant raises a question about the net magnetic moment of a meson with spin zero consisting of two different quarks.
  • There is a debate regarding the total angular momentum of systems like parahydrogen and how it relates to magnetic moments.
  • Some participants assert that a spin-zero state cannot have a magnetic moment pointing in a particular direction due to its rotational symmetry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the emission of Cherenkov radiation by neutral composite particles and the existence of magnetic dipole moments in neutral mesons. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the stability of composite particles in different energy states and the definitions of magnetic moments in various contexts. The discussion also reflects uncertainty regarding the interactions between neutrons and electrons.

Garlic
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Hello everyone,
Can atomic or subatomic neutral composite particles that consist charged particles emit cherenkov radiation if they are polarised strongly enough (and are fast enough)?
 
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It's not impossible, but long before you get your first Cherenkov photon the compound disintegrates from scattering in the medium, loses all its energy or does something else that has nothing to do with Cherenkov radiation.
 
mfb said:
It's not impossible, but long before you get your first Cherenkov photon the compound disintegrates from scattering in the medium,
What if the composite particle cannot disintegrate because of colour confinement?

Neutrons have a magnetic dipole moment. Do neutral mesons also possesses magnetic dipole moments?

Neutrons are capable of elastic scattering off a proton via strong interaction. But electrons are not subject to strong interaction. What is the prevalent mechanism for elastic scattering of neutrons from electrons: electromagnetic interaction with the magnetic dipole moment, or weak interaction?
 
snorkack said:
What if the composite particle cannot disintegrate because of colour confinement?
Color confinement doesn't prevent anything if there is sufficient energy. On the other hand, color confined objects are too small for Cherenkov radiation anyway.
snorkack said:
Do neutral mesons also possesses magnetic dipole moments?
I would expect that, unless there is a symmetry preventing it.
 
mfb said:
I would expect that, unless there is a symmetry preventing it.

Spin-0 mesons have a symmetry preventing it. (In which direction does the moment point?) Spin-1 and higher don't have this problem, but they are too short lived to have a substantial interaction with a magnetic field. The best you can usually do is measure a transition magnetic moment.
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
Spin-0 mesons have a symmetry preventing it. (In which direction does the moment point?)
Hydrogen atom does have a magnetic dipole moment - despite having spin zero. The spins of proton and electron are opposite and equally half, so cancel to zero - the magnetic moments of proton and electron are unequal, and leave a net magnetic moment.
Why then cannot a meson with spin zero consisting of two different quarks possesses a net magnetic moment?
 
snorkack said:
Hydrogen atom does have a magnetic dipole moment - despite having spin zero.

Are you sure? What is [itex]\sqrt{l(l+1)}[/itex] in this case?
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Are you sure? What is [itex]\sqrt{l(l+1)}[/itex] in this case?
What are you signifying with l here?
 
L is total angular momentum. Zero for parahydrogen.
 
  • #10
Indeed. Zero total angular momentum because the spins of electron and proton are antiparallel and equal. Whereas the magnetic momenta are unequal, and actually in the same direction.

If electron and proton can have net magnetic moment despite having spin summed to zero, why cannot two quarks which are not each other´s antiparticles have a net magnetic moment despite having spin summed to zero?
 
  • #11
If you are in an eigenstate of total spin, the individual spins are in a state [itex]\uparrow \downarrow + \downarrow \uparrow[/itex]. When you operate the magnetic moment operator on that wavefunction, you get zero.

If you place this atom in a magnetic field, you will polarize the electron, sure. But now you are in an eignestate of electron spin and not in an eigenstate of total angular momentum.
 
  • #12
snorkack said:
Hydrogen atom does have a magnetic dipole moment - despite having spin zero.

I don't think so. A spin zero state is completely rotationally symmetric, so can't have a moment pointing in any particular direction.
 
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