Circular motion at end of string in horizontal plane

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of a mass undergoing uniform circular motion at the end of a string in a horizontal plane. Participants explore the relationship between tension, angular velocity, radius, and gravitational force, particularly focusing on the conditions under which the derived equations hold true.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation involving tension, gravitational force, and centripetal acceleration, leading to the equation a = rω² = √(l²ω⁴ - g²).
  • Another participant questions the validity of the rearrangement that leads to the square root expression.
  • It is suggested that the parameters of the problem may not be arbitrary, as a small length l could require a correspondingly large angular velocity ω due to gravitational effects.
  • A later reply indicates that there is a lower limit for ω, specifically ω = √(g/l), which relates to the frequency of a pendulum at low amplitude.
  • Another participant confirms the limit for small angles and acknowledges the previous points made about the relationship between ω and l.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions under which the derived equations are valid, particularly regarding the arbitrary nature of the parameters involved. There is no consensus on the implications of the derived equations or the physical restrictions they may impose.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the derivation relies on certain assumptions about the relationship between angular velocity, string length, and gravitational force, which may not hold under all conditions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying dynamics, circular motion, or related areas in physics, particularly in understanding the interplay between tension, angular velocity, and gravitational forces in a constrained system.

fouquoit
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Suppose a mass m suspended from a string of length l is undergoing uniform circular motion in a horizontal plane, with angular velocity ω. Calculate the centripetal acceleration a.

If T is the tension in the string, and θ the angle the string makes with the vertical, then the vertical and horizontal components are:

T cos θ = mg
T sin θ = mrω²

Dividing the latter by the former gives: [tex]\frac{\sin \theta}{\cos \theta}=\frac{\sin \theta}{\sqrt{1-\sin^{2}\theta}}=\frac{r \omega^{2}}{g}[/tex]

If r is the radius of the circle, then [tex]\sin \theta=\frac{r}{l}[/tex], and substituting for sin θ gives:

[tex]\frac{\frac{r}{l}}{\sqrt{1-(\frac{r}{l})^{2}}}=\frac{r \omega^{2}}{g}[/tex]

Rearranging gives [tex]a=r\omega^{2}=\sqrt{l^{2}\omega^{4}-g^2}}[/tex]

Now, the thing that I find strange about this result is that, to be able to take the square root, we need [tex]l^{2}\omega^{4}\geq g^2[/tex], but physically there seems to be no such restriction, since l and ω are arbitrary and can be as small as one likes.

Where have I gone wrong?
 
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fouquoit said:
Rearranging gives [tex]a=r\omega^{2}=\sqrt{l^{2}\omega^{4}-g^2}}[/tex]
How did you do this rearrangement?
 
The parameters may not be so arbritrary. If l is small then w may end up large because of the effect of gravity and the the relatively small radius r.
 
OK, thanks. I think I've got it. There is actually nothing wrong with the equation I derived.

As the prevois poster pointed out, ω is not arbitrary. In fact ω just has a lower limit given by [tex]\omega=\sqrt{\frac{g}{l}}[/tex], which corresponds to the frequency of a pendulum oscillating at low amplitude.
 
[tex]\omega=\sqrt{\frac{g}{l\cos\theta}}[/tex]

Which has the limit for small angles as you point out. Good stuff!
 

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