I Clarifying a corollary about Quadratic Forms

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on a corollary related to symmetric bilinear forms and their representation through quadratic forms. It establishes that for a vector space with a symmetric bilinear form, a basis can be chosen such that the quadratic form can be expressed as a difference of squares, specifically involving positive and negative terms. The participants clarify that the values of p and q, which represent the counts of positive and negative terms in the quadratic form, are invariant under basis changes, while the specific ordering of basis elements may vary. The conversation concludes with an understanding that the signature of the quadratic form is defined by these invariant counts, allowing for further exploration of their independence from the choice of basis. This insight facilitates the next steps in proving the properties of the quadratic form.
Euler2718
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The question comes out of a corollary of this theorem:
Let B be a symmetric bilinear form on a vector space, V, over a field \mathbb{F}= \mathbb{R} or \mathbb{F}= \mathbb{C}. Then there exists a basis v_{1},\dots, v_{n} such that B(v_{i},v_{j}) = 0 for i\neq j and such that for all i=1,\dots , n: B(v_{i},v_{i}) = \begin{cases} 0,1 & F=\mathbb{C} \\ 0, \pm 1 & F=\mathbb{R}\end{cases}
(that is to say, there is a choice of basis so that \beta (symmetric n\times n matrix representing the form)is diagonal with diagonal entires 0,1 if \mathbb{F} = \mathbb{C} and 0,1,-1, if \mathbb{F} = \mathbb{R}

Then the corollary is presented: Let V and B be as above and let Q(\mathbf{v}) = B(\mathbf{v},\mathbf{v}). Then (I'll just consider the case over the field of reals): for some p,q with p+q\leq n there exists a basis such that: Q(\mathbf{v}) = Q(z_{1}\mathbf{v}_{1} + \dots + z_{n}\mathbf{v}_{n}) = \sum_{i=1}^{p} z_{i}^{2} - \sum_{i=p+1}^{p+q}z_{i}^{2} = z_{1}^{2} + z_{2}^{2} +\dots + z_{p-1}^{2} + z_{p}^{2} - z_{p+1}^{2} - z_{p+2}^{2} - \dots -z_{p+q}^{2}

I feel like it is probably obvious, but how does: \displaystyle \sum_{i=1}^{p} z_{i}^{2} - \sum_{i=p+1}^{p+q}z_{i}^{2} describe the quadric? The proof I have seen is: choice an appropriate basis satisfying the theorem, then Q(z_{1}\mathbf{v}_{1} + \dots + z_{n}\mathbf{v}_{n}) = B(z_{1}\mathbf{v}_{1} + \dots + z_{n}\mathbf{v}_{n},z_{1}\mathbf{v}_{1} + \dots + z_{n}\mathbf{v}_{n}) = \sum_{i,j=1}^{n} z_{i}z_{j}B(\mathbf{v}_{i},\mathbf{v}_{j}) = \sum_{i=1}^{n}z_{i}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{i},\mathbf{v}_{i}), where B(\mathbf{v}_{i},\mathbf{v}_{i}) are 0,1,or -1 as appropriate.
So the question then becomes how does \sum_{i=1}^{n}z_{i}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{i},\mathbf{v}_{i}) imply the result I have in the corollary? Is it just a manipulation of the series? Or is it simply my lack of experience showing its true colors?
 
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Euler2718 said:
Is it just a manipulation of the series? Or is it simply my lack of experience showing its true colors?
I think neither nor. It's probably a case of math blindness. You just have to substitute
$$B(v_1,v_1)=1, \ldots , B(v_p,v_p) = 1\, , \,B(v_{p+1},v_{p+1})=-1, \ldots , B(v_{p+q},v_{p+q})=-1\; , \; \\
B(v_{p+q+1},v_{p+q+1})=0, \ldots ,B(v_n,v_n)=0 $$
which you have from the theorem after eventually renumbering the basis vectors.
 
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fresh_42 said:
I think neither nor. It's probably a case of math blindness. You just have to substitute
$$B(v_1,v_1)=1, \ldots , B(v_p,v_p) = 1\, , \,B(v_{p+1},v_{p+1})=-1, \ldots , B(v_{p+q},v_{p+q})=-1\; , \; \\
B(v_{p+q+1},v_{p+q+1})=0, \ldots ,B(v_n,v_n)=0 $$
which you have from the theorem after eventually renumbering the basis vectors.
So I break this up\displaystyle Q(\mathbf{v}) = \sum_{i=1}^{n}z_{i}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{i},\mathbf{v}_{i}) = z_{1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{1},\mathbf{v}_{1}) + z_{2}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{2},\mathbf{v}_{2}) + z_{3}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{3},\mathbf{v}_{3}) + \dots + z_{n-1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{n-1},\mathbf{v}_{n-1}) + z_{n}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{n},\mathbf{v}_{n}) = z_{1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{1},\mathbf{v}_{1}) + \dots + z_{p}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{p},\mathbf{v}_{p}) +z_{p+1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{p+1},\mathbf{v}_{p+1})+\dots +z_{p+q-1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{p+q-1},\mathbf{v}_{p+q-1})+z_{p+q}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{p+q},\mathbf{v}_{p+q})+z_{p+q+1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{p+q+1},\mathbf{v}_{p+q+1})+\dots + z_{n}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{n},\mathbf{v}_{n}), which I think can see now where the summations in the corollary come from. But whose to say, for instance, that 1,\dots ,p indexed terms can't be -1 or 0 also? Is it just a convenience to make those substitutions or is there something governing this?
 
Euler2718 said:
So I break this up\displaystyle Q(\mathbf{v}) = \sum_{i=1}^{n}z_{i}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{i},\mathbf{v}_{i}) = z_{1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{1},\mathbf{v}_{1}) + z_{2}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{2},\mathbf{v}_{2}) + z_{3}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{3},\mathbf{v}_{3}) + \dots + z_{n-1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{n-1},\mathbf{v}_{n-1}) + z_{n}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{n},\mathbf{v}_{n}) = z_{1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{1},\mathbf{v}_{1}) + \dots + z_{p}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{p},\mathbf{v}_{p}) +z_{p+1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{p+1},\mathbf{v}_{p+1})+\dots +z_{p+q-1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{p+q-1},\mathbf{v}_{p+q-1})+z_{p+q}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{p+q},\mathbf{v}_{p+q})+z_{p+q+1}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{p+q+1},\mathbf{v}_{p+q+1})+\dots + z_{n}^{2}B(\mathbf{v}_{n},\mathbf{v}_{n}), which I think can see now where the summations in the corollary come from. But whose to say, for instance, that 1,\dots ,p indexed terms can't be -1 or 0 also? Is it just a convenience to make those substitutions or is there something governing this?

You wrote:

Euler2718 said:
Then (I'll just consider the case over the field of reals): for some ##p,q## with ##p+q\leq n## there exists a basis such that:
This means, we can enumerate the basis vectors as we like, so we start with the ##1's## - say there are ##p## many - then continue with the ##-1's## - say ##q## many of them - and finally the ##0's## which must be all the rest. All other terms ##B(v_i,v_j)## for ##i \neq j## are zero anyway.
 
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fresh_42 said:
This means, we can enumerate the basis vectors as we like, so we start with the 1′s1's - say there are pp many - then continue with the −1′s-1's - say qq many of them - and finally the 0′s0's which must be all the rest. All other terms B(vi,vj)B(v_i,v_j) for i≠ji \neq j are zero anyway.
Ah yes, I think it is clear now. Thank you. Now I can proceed on what I'm supposed to do (proving p and q are independent of choice of basis).
 
Euler2718 said:
Ah yes, I think it is clear now. Thank you. Now I can proceed on what I'm supposed to do (proving p and q are independent of choice of basis).
Yes, if I remember correctly, it's called the signature of the quadratic form. Note that only the numbers ##p## and ##q## are independent of the basis, not the ordering or any other linear combination of basis elements. ##B## itself can have many appearances depending on which basis is chosen, however, ##p,q## are invariant.
 
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fresh_42 said:
Yes, if I remember correctly, it's called the signature of the quadratic form. Note that only the numbers ##p## and ##q## are independent of the basis, not the ordering or any other linear combination of basis elements. ##B## itself can have many appearances depending on which basis is chosen, however, ##p,q## are invariant.
Thank you again, I will keep this in mind.
 
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