Classic Electric Power Generation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the principles of electric power generation, particularly focusing on the behavior of electrons in circuits, the role of magnetic fields, and the nature of electric current. Participants explore concepts related to alternating current (A/C), charge movement, and the mechanics of generators.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether electrons are generating current and amperage, and inquires about their source and why they do not deplete over time.
  • Another participant explains that moving a conducting plate through a magnetic field causes charge separation, which balances out due to attractive forces, preventing continuous charge accumulation.
  • A different participant clarifies that electrons are already present in the wire and that the induced electric field from a changing magnetic field causes them to oscillate rather than flow out of the circuit.
  • There is a suggestion that thinking of electrons as oscillating rather than flowing might provide a clearer understanding of electric current.
  • One participant asserts that continuous electron flow is not possible in an open circuit, but oscillation can occur in a connected wire.
  • A later post questions the simplification in textbooks regarding electron flow from generators, proposing that electrons oscillate like waves instead.
  • Another participant challenges this view by stating that generators operate differently and that electric power typically involves multiple wires without a direct connection to ground.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of electron movement in circuits, with some suggesting oscillation while others maintain traditional views of flow. There is no consensus on the simplifications presented in educational materials regarding these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the behavior of electrons and the mechanics of generators remain unresolved, particularly regarding the implications of oscillation versus flow in practical applications.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and enthusiasts of physics and electrical engineering, particularly those exploring the fundamentals of electric power generation and the behavior of electric currents.

Constructe
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A magnet surrounded by copper wire spins generating a A/C current down a wire for as long as it spins. Are electrons generating the current and amperage? If so, where are the electrons emenating from and why don't they ever run out? Also why doesn't the copper and or magnet end up becoming increasingly positively charged as time goes on year after year?
 
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"circuit"
 
If you move a conducting plate through a magnetic field, then the magnetic force will cause the charge carriers in the plate to move in opposite directions. So there will be some charge separation. The charge separation itself causes an attractive force between the separated charges which are now attracted back to each other. So the charge separation builds up only to the point where attraction cancels the magnetic force. I'm not sure the exact scenario you have in mind, but this mechanism prevents the plate from becoming more and more charged the longer it moves in the field.
 
Constructe said:
where are the electrons emenating from and why don't they ever run out?

The electrons were in the wire in the first place. The changing magnetic field creates an induced electric field which is also continually changing, and which pushes the electrons back and forth along the wire. They don't "run out" because they never leave the circuit.
 
Charges produce electric fields. Electric fields move charges. Moving charges (e.g. electrons) produce magnetic fields. Changing electric fields also produce magnetic fields. Magnetic fields also affect motion of charges. Changing magnetic fields produces electric fields... and much more. Lots of nice things for you to study :-)

jf
 
Thanks PF. What if the charge then goes into a circuit that does work then moves to a ground. Since the electron can no longer move backwards in the circuit, is there somewhere where an electron goes missing (wire, generator, air)? I was thinking perhaps it might not be best to imagine electrons moving but a electric wave.
 
You can't have electrons continuously flowing in an open circuit. What you can do, however, is have them oscillate back and forth in a single wire connected to ground. That's how you can have a single-wire radio receiver, for example.
 
Oh I see. That makes things much clearer.
 
Am I correct in stating that basically some books are simplifying when they say electrons flow out of a hydroelectric generator down wires, into circuits to a ground? In reality, they are oscillating electrons back and forth a certain amount of molecules like a series of waves. If this is the case can I double the computing power of a computer by making a return gate as the electron moves back to its oscillating beginning state?
 
  • #10
Where did you read that? That's not how generators work. Look at the plug you have on your computer: it has at least two wires on it!

Electric power from the power company actually comes over three wires, with waves that are 120 degrees out of phase with each other. But there is no connection to ground.
 

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