Combinations Question ; I must be missing something

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The discussion centers on calculating the number of ways to choose biscuits from a box containing nine varieties under different conditions. For part a, the initial method leads to double-counting, resulting in an incorrect answer of 504 instead of the correct 252. Part b also suffers from the same issue, yielding an answer of 72 when it should be 36. In part c, the method is correct, as it accounts for the asymmetry between the varieties, confirming the answer of 72. The key takeaway is the importance of avoiding double-counting in combinatorial problems.
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Homework Statement


A large Box of biscuits contains nine different varieties. In how many ways can four biscuits be chosen if :
a)Two are the same and the others different
b)Two each of two varieties are selected
c)three are the same and the fourth is different

Homework Equations



Combinations formulas

The Attempt at a Solution



a) The number of Choices for the first one are "9"
for the 2nd one is: "1"
for the third one are: "8"
for the fourth one are "7"

Ans : 504 (correct ans : 252 ) [How ?]

b) The number of choices for the 1st : "9"
2nd : "1"
3rd : "8"
4th : "1"
Ans : 72 (correct ans : 36) [How ?]

c) 1st choice : "9"
2nd choice : "1"
3rd Choice : "1"
4th choice : "8"
Ans : 72 (correct ans : 72) [Hmmm...]
 
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a) Your method results in double-counting.
Essentially your method is:
(1) Pick 1 variety out of the 9. Let's have two biscuits of this.
(2) Pick 1 variety out of the 8 varieties left. One biscuit.
(3) Pick 1 variety out of the 7 varieties left. One biscuit.

Steps (2) and (3) double count, because your method is assuming that the order matters, which does not. eg. picking biscuit A in step 2 and B in step 3 is the same case as picking biscuit B in step 2 and A in step 3.

b) Same problem of double counting.

c) No double counting because of asymmetry between the cases (i find myself tempted to say that symmetry is broken between the two distinct varieties of biscuits but anyway :p). ie three biscuit A + one biscuit B is not the same as three biscuit B + one biscuit A. That's why you got the correct answer.
 
Fightfish said:
a) Your method results in double-counting.
Essentially your method is:
(1) Pick 1 variety out of the 9. Let's have two biscuits of this.
(2) Pick 1 variety out of the 8 varieties left. One biscuit.
(3) Pick 1 variety out of the 7 varieties left. One biscuit.

Steps (2) and (3) double count, because your method is assuming that the order matters, which does not. eg. picking biscuit A in step 2 and B in step 3 is the same case as picking biscuit B in step 2 and A in step 3.

b) Same problem of double counting.

c) No double counting because of asymmetry between the cases (i find myself tempted to say that symmetry is broken between the two distinct varieties of biscuits but anyway :p). ie three biscuit A + one biscuit B is not the same as three biscuit B + one biscuit A. That's why you got the correct answer.

You are right, I must divide them by "two" . I understand !
 
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