Commutator group in the center of a group

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on proving that if \( H \triangleleft G \) and \( H \cap [G,G] = \{e\} \), then \( H \subseteq Z(G) \). Participants clarify that \( [G,G] \) is the commutator group and explore the implications of normality in groups. Key steps include showing that \( g^{-1}hg \in H \) due to the normality of \( H \) in \( G \) and concluding that \( [g,h] = e \) for all \( g \in G \) and \( h \in H \), which leads to \( H \) being abelian and thus a subset of the center \( Z(G) \).

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of group theory concepts such as commutator groups and normal subgroups.
  • Familiarity with the notation and properties of the center of a group, \( Z(G) \).
  • Knowledge of the implications of normality in groups and their commutators.
  • Ability to manipulate group elements and expressions involving group operations.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the properties of commutator groups in detail, focusing on \( [G,G] \) and its implications for group structure.
  • Learn about the center of a group, \( Z(G) \), and its significance in group theory.
  • Explore the concept of normal subgroups and their role in group homomorphisms.
  • Investigate examples of groups where \( H \cap [G,G] = \{e\} \) and analyze their structure.
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, particularly those specializing in abstract algebra, group theorists, and students studying advanced group theory concepts will benefit from this discussion.

AllRelative
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Homework Statement


[G,G] is the commutator group.
Let ##H\triangleleft G## such that ##H\cap [G,G]## = {e}. Show that ##H \subseteq Z(G)##.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


In the previous problem I showed that ##G## is abelian iif ##[G,G] = {e}##. I also showed that ##[G,G]\triangleleft G##.

***
I am unsure what ##(H\cap [G,G])## represents.
Is ##(H\cap [G,G])## = ##[H,H]##,
or is it equal to {##[x,y] \in H | x,y \in G##}??
***
I began my solution like this:
##\forall [a,b] \in (H\cap [G,G])##, we have that ##a^{-1}b^{-1}ab = e##
##\Rightarrow ab = ba##

something missing

##\Rightarrow H\subseteq Z(G)##.
 
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AllRelative said:
I began my solution like this:
##\forall [a,b] \in (H\cap [G,G])##, we have that ##a^{-1}b^{-1}ab = e \Rightarrow ab = ba##
That's the wrong direction. You started with an element which is the identity and want to show what? That ##e\in Z(G)##?

Skip the direction. What can you say about ##g^{-1}hgh\,##?
 
You're right, I started the wrong way haha.

So ##g^{-1}hg \in G## because of the normality of ##H## in ##G##.

##g^{-1}h^{-1}gh## = ##g'h## with ##g'=g^{-1}h^{-1}g##.
 
AllRelative said:
You're right, I started the wrong way haha.

So ##g^{-1}hg \in G## because of the normality of ##H## in ##G##.

##g^{-1}h^{-1}gh## = ##g'h## with ##g'=g^{-1}h^{-1}g##.
So ##g^{-1}hg \in H## because of the normality of ##H## in ##G##.

##g^{-1}h^{-1}gh## = ##h'h## with ##h'=g^{-1}h^{-1}g##.
 
fresh_42 said:
So ##g^{-1}hg \in H## because of the normality of ##H## in ##G##.

##g^{-1}h^{-1}gh## = ##h'h## with ##h'=g^{-1}h^{-1}g##.
Sorry I still don't see it...

We have an ##h' = g^{-1}h^{-1}g##.
We can write ##(g^{-1}h^{-1}g)h = [g,h] = h'h## which belongs to ##H##.

I assume we have to show somehow that ##h'h = hh'## which would make ##H## abelian and therefore a subset of ##Z(G)##.

But ##h'h = hh'##
##(g^{-1}h^{-1}g)h = h(g^{-1}h^{-1}g)##

I don't think we can much with that last expression...
 
AllRelative said:
Sorry I still don't see it...

We have an ##h' = g^{-1}h^{-1}g##.
We can write ##(g^{-1}h^{-1}g)h = [g,h] = h'h## which belongs to ##H##.

I assume we have to show somehow that ##h'h = hh'## which would make ##H## abelian and therefore a subset of ##Z(G)##.

But ##h'h = hh'##
##(g^{-1}h^{-1}g)h = h(g^{-1}h^{-1}g)##

I don't think we can much with that last expression...
We already have ##[g,h] \in [G,H] \subseteq [G,G]## and ##[g,h]=h'h \in H##. This is ##[g,h]\in H \cap [G,G]=\{\,e\,\}\,.##
So ##[g,h]=g^{-1}h^{-1}gh=e##.

Everything needed is already here.
 
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