What Is the Relationship Between Coset Sizes in a Group?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem in group theory, specifically concerning the relationship between the sizes of cosets in a group. The original poster attempts to prove that if \( H \leq K \leq G \) and both \( [G : K] \) and \( [K : H] \) are finite, then \( [G:K] \cdot [K : H] = [G : H] \). Participants are exploring the implications of their attempts and reasoning regarding the structure of the groups involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the representation of \( G \) as a union of cosets and question the necessity of certain formulations, such as the use of an external direct product. They express confusion about how to derive the desired relationship between coset sizes from their current reasoning and the implications of non-commuting elements.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and alternative perspectives on the problem. Some suggest different approaches to express the relationship between the sizes of the groups and their cosets, while others are still grappling with the implications of their current reasoning and the structure of their proofs.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity introduced by the non-commutativity of elements and the potential confusion arising from the notation used in their attempts. There is also mention of the need for clarity in the reasoning behind the disjoint union of cosets.

Mr Davis 97
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Homework Statement


Prove that if ##H\leq K\leq G## and ##[G : K]## and ##[K : H]## are finite, then ##[G:K]\cdot [K : H]=[G : H]##

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


Here is my attempt. We first note that $$G = \bigcup_{x\in G} xK ~\text{and}~ K=\bigcup_{y\in K}yH$$.
So $$G = \bigcup_{x\in G} x\bigcup_{y\in K}yH = \bigcup_{(x,y)\in G \times K}xyH$$ Now we show that ##G## is a disjoint union. Suppose that ##xyH \cap x'y'H \not = \emptyset##. Then there is some nontrivial ##x## such that ##x = xyh=x'y'h'## for some ##h,h'\in H##. But then it's clear that ##xyH=x'y'H##. Hence we have a disjoint union.

This is where I get stuck. Is there some way I can glean from what I proved the fact that ##[G:K]\cdot [K : H]=[G : H]##?
 
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Mr Davis 97 said:
So $$G = \bigcup_{x\in G} x\bigcup_{y\in K}yH = \bigcup_{(x,y)\in G \times K}xyH$$
I'd say you have ##G= \cup_{(xy)\in G}\,(xy)H##, because there is no need for an external direct product. All ##y\in K## are also in ##G## and so are ##xy \in G##. No need for a separation.
Now we show that ##G## is a disjoint union. Suppose that ##xyH \cap x'y'H \not = \emptyset##. Then there is some nontrivial ##x##...
Say we have a ##g\in G##, regardless of whether it is ##g=e##.
... such that ##x = xyh=x'y'h'##...
##g=xyh=x'y'h'##
... for some ##h,h'\in H##. But then it's clear that ##xyH=x'y'H##. Hence we have a disjoint union.
I do not see it immediately, since ##x## and ##y## do not commute. IMO there should be some more reasoning, especially as the double usage of ##x## in one and the same equation is a bit weird.
This is where I get stuck. Is there some way I can glean from what I proved the fact that ##[G:K]\cdot [K : H]=[G : H]##?
See my first remark. The introduction of an artificial external direct product, let it be groups or just sets, is the reason why you are trapped.
 
fresh_42 said:
I'd say you have ##G= \cup_{(xy)\in G}\,(xy)H##, because there is no need for an external direct product. All ##y\in K## are also in ##G## and so are ##xy \in G##. No need for a separation.
Say we have a ##g\in G##, regardless of whether it is ##g=e##.##g=xyh=x'y'h'##
I do not see it immediately, since ##x## and ##y## do not commute. IMO there should be some more reasoning, especially as the double usage of ##x## in one and the same equation is a bit weird.

See my first remark. The introduction of an artificial external direct product, let it be groups or just sets, is the reason why you are trapped.
Well even if I have the disjoint union ##G = \bigcup_{(xy)\in G} xyH## I'm not seeing how to conclude that ##[G: K][K : H] = [G : H]##
 
You could show ##|G|\stackrel{(*)}{=}|G:U|\cdot |U|## instead, and simply use this equation repeatedly. Your approach would do the same, but with all versions of the proof for ##(*)##, i.e. all steps for ##H\leq K\; , \;H\leq G\; , \;K\leq G## repeated in three versions, if you count the elements in your cosets and the number of cosets.
 

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