Compression and Expansion of a Volume of Air

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the compression and expansion of a volume of air, specifically analyzing the changes in pressure and temperature during these processes. Participants are working through a homework problem involving the application of the equation \( pV^{1.3} = c \) and the ideal gas law, with a focus on understanding the implications of compression ratios and isothermal expansion.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants clarify that the compression ratio is defined as the initial volume divided by the final volume, not the other way around.
  • There is a discussion about the correct application of the equation \( pV^{1.3} = c \) during the compression process, with some participants suggesting that temperature changes during compression.
  • One participant calculates the final volume after compression as \( 0.015 \, m^3 \) based on the compression ratio.
  • There are conflicting views on whether the temperature remains constant during compression, with some asserting that it does not change while others suggest using the ideal gas law to find the final temperature.
  • Participants attempt to calculate the final pressure after compression using the provided equation, with varying results and some corrections being made along the way.
  • There is confusion regarding the calculation of the number of moles, with some participants misidentifying volume as mass and needing clarification on the correct approach.
  • The final temperature after compression is calculated by one participant using the ideal gas law, leading to a value expressed in Kelvin.
  • The discussion also touches on the implications of isothermal expansion, with participants debating the relationship between pressure and volume under constant temperature conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach consensus on several aspects, including the treatment of temperature during compression, the calculation of final pressure, and the interpretation of the ideal gas law. Multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations presented are based on assumptions that may not have been explicitly stated, such as the treatment of air as an ideal gas and the specific conditions under which the equations apply. There are unresolved mathematical steps and potential errors in the application of formulas.

Ben_Walker1978
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Homework Statement


Air with an initial volume of 0.12m³, pressure 1 bar and temperature 18°C is compressed according to the law pV1.3 = c through an 8:1 compression ratio. It is then allowed to expand isothermally back to its initial volume. Determine:
i) the pressure and temperature after compression, and

ii) the final pressure.

For air, take R = 287 Jkg¯¹ K¯¹.

Is my solution correct?

Thanks

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


upload_2018-2-13_13-35-10.png
 

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Ben_Walker1978 said:

Homework Statement


Air with an initial volume of 0.12m³, pressure 1 bar and temperature 18°C is compressed according to the law pV1.3 = c through an 8:1 compression ratio. It is then allowed to expand isothermally back to its initial volume. Determine:
i) the pressure and temperature after compression, and

ii) the final pressure.

For air, take R = 287 Jkg¯¹ K¯¹.

Is my solution correct?

Thanks

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


View attachment 220251
1. Compression ratio is defined as the initial volume divided by the final volume, not the final pressure divided by the initial pressure.

2. The pressure-volume equation they gave you was supposed to be ##pV^{1.3}=c##, not what you used. This means that the temperature was changing during the compression.

3. Your calculation of the temperature was incorrect, because the volume was not constant. You didn't need to determine the temperature. You need to determine the pressure after the gas is compressed, given the initial volume and pressure, and the final volume. This can be done with the p-V equation they gave you.
 
Hello.

Thank you for your reply.

So if i do 0.12 x 8 = 0.96.

0.96 is final volume.

Becasue 0.96/0.12 = 8. And 8 is Compression Ratio.

Am i correct?
 
No. When something gets compressed, its volume decreases, not increases.
 
So is it 0.12/8?

0.12/8 = 0.015

Final volume = 0.015
 
Ben_Walker1978 said:
So is it 0.12/8?

0.12/8 = 0.015

Final volume = 0.015
Correct.
 
Thank you.

So for the 2.

The temperature does not need to change. So if i use $$pV^{1.3}=c$$ to change pressure after compression. How do i show the temperature does not change?
 
You are not done with 1 yet. You need to determine the pressure at the end of 1. You have the equation $$pV^{1.3}=c$$, and you know the initial pressure, the initial volume, and the final volume. Can you figure out how to use this equation to get the final pressure at the end of 1?
 
Final Pressure after compression ratio =
$$ pV^{1.3} = c $$
$$p1V1^{1.3} = p2V2^{1.3}$$
$$p2 = p^1V1^{1.3}$$
$$ V2 =\frac{Initial Volume}{Compression Ratio}$$
$$V2 = \frac{0.12^3}{8}$$
$$p2 = \frac{Inital Pressure x Initail Volume}{Final Volume}$$
$$p2 = \frac{100,000 x 0.12^{1.3}}{0.015^{1.3}}$$
$$ Final Pressure = 423491.1713Pa$$

Is this correct?
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Ben_Walker1978 said:
Final Pressure after compression ratio =
$$ pV^{1.3} = c $$
$$p1V1^{1.3} = p2V2^{1.3}$$
$$p2 = p^1V1^{1.3}$$
$$ V2 =\frac{Initial Volume}{Compression Ratio}$$
$$V2 = \frac{0.12^3}{8}$$
$$p2 = \frac{Inital Pressure x Initail Volume}{Final Volume}$$
$$p2 = \frac{100,000 x 0.12^{1.3}}{0.015^{1.3}}$$
$$ Final Pressure = 423491.1713Pa$$

Is this correct?
No. I have no idea what you did here, but it's not correct.

For step 1, you have $$p_{1f}(V_{1f})^{1.3}=p_{1i}(V_{1i})^{1.3}$$
where ##p_{1i}=100000\ Pa##, ##V_{1i}=0.12\ m^3##, and ##V_{1f}=0.015\ m^3##. So, $$p_{1f}(0.015)^{1.3}=(100000)(0.12)^{1.3}$$
From this equation, what value do you get for the final pressure from step 1, ##p_{1f}##?
 
  • #11
$$p1f$$ = 1492918.214

Is this correct?
 
  • #12
Ben_Walker1978 said:
$$p1f$$ = 1492918.214

Is this correct?
Yes.
 
  • #13
Thank you.

So that is final pressure after compression ratio.

For temperature after compression ratio. The Temperature doesn't change.

So what equation would i use to solve that? $$pV^{1.3}=c$$ ?
 
  • #14
Ben_Walker1978 said:
Thank you.

So that is final pressure after compression ratio.

For temperature after compression ratio. The Temperature doesn't change.

So what equation would i use to solve that? $$pV^{1.3}=c$$ ?
The final temperature at the end of step 1, the compression step, is not the same as at the beginning of step 1. You can use the ideal gas law to get this temperature.
 
  • #15
I have used the ideal gas law. This is my attempt.

$$pv = nRT$$

$$T = \frac{pV}{nR}$$

$$T = \frac{1492918.214 x 0.015}{0.5179 x 8.31441} = 359511.5117 ~$$

Is this correct?

Thanks
 
  • #16
Ben_Walker1978 said:
I have used the ideal gas law. This is my attempt.

$$pv = nRT$$

$$T = \frac{pV}{nR}$$

$$T = \frac{1492918.214 x 0.015}{0.5179 x 8.31441} = 359511.5117 ~$$

Is this correct?

Thanks
No. How did you get n = 0.5179 moles? To get the number of moles, use the initial conditions.

Plus, even for the numbers shown on the left hand side of your equation, the number on the right hand side is incorrect. The arithmetic is wrong.
 
  • #17
I got the number of moles by $$\frac{Mass}{Air}$$

Which is $$\frac{0.015}{0.02896}$$

0.02896 = Air
0.015 is Mass After compression.

Have i got the number of moles wrong?

Yeah it is wrong. It is 52000.59
 
  • #18
Ben_Walker1978 said:
I got the number of moles by $$\frac{Mass}{Air}$$

Which is $$\frac{0.015}{0.02896}$$

0.02896 = Air
0.015 is Mass After compression.
If you had used units, you would know that the 0.015 m^3 is volume, and not mass.
Have i got the number of moles wrong?

Yeah it is wrong. It is 52000.59
I get 4.96 moles.
 
  • #19
How did you get the mass?
 
  • #20
Ben_Walker1978 said:
How did you get the mass?
From the initial conditions,
$$n=\frac{(100000)(0.12)}{(8.314)(273.2+18)}=4.96$$
 
  • #21
Thank you.

So this is the equation.

$$ T = \frac{1492918.214 x 0.015}{4.96 x 8.31441} = 543.024 $$

And this is the Temperature after compression.

Correct?
 
  • #22
Ben_Walker1978 said:
Thank you.

So this is the equation.

$$ T = \frac{1492918.214 x 0.015}{4.96 x 8.31441} = 543.024 $$

And this is the Temperature after compression.

Correct?
Yes. And the units of that temperature are ?
 
  • #23
Kelvin?
 
  • #24
Ben_Walker1978 said:
Kelvin?
You don’t seem sure.
 
  • #25
well i thought you changed degrees to Kelvin for this equation.

So it's Kelvin
 
  • #26
Ben_Walker1978 said:
well i thought you changed degrees to Kelvin for this equation.

So it's Kelvin
Correct. You can tell that from examining the units of R. So, if this is the final temperature in K, what is this final temperature in C?

OK. Now for step 2. Please say in words you assessment of what's happening here and how to proceed.
 
  • #27
269.874 Degrees

You have to work out the final pressure.

It is allowed to expand isotheramlly back to its initial volume.

Which means the Temperature is constant.
 
  • #28
Ben_Walker1978 said:
269.874 Degrees

You have to work out the final pressure.

It is allowed to expand isotheramlly back to its initial volume.

Which means the Temperature is constant.
If the temperature is constant, then, from the ideal gas law, the pressure is
(a) directly proportional to the volume
(b) inversely proportional to the volume
(c) directly proportional to the volume to the 1.3 power
(d) inversely proportional to the volume to the 1.3 power
(e) none of the above
 
  • #29
(b) Inversely proportional to the volume.
 
  • #30
I have done some revising and found the equation.

$$T = Q - W$$

This is for Temperature constant.

Am i correct?
 

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