Thermodynamic Systems - Volume, Final Pressure and Final Temperature

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamic problem involving a mass of air with specified initial conditions, where participants attempt to calculate the initial volume, final pressure, and final temperature after expansion to a given volume. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and application of the ideal gas law.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the initial volume using the formula V=mRT/P, arriving at a value of 26,662.12 m3, but later realizes a conversion error to liters.
  • Another participant points out the need to divide by 800,000 Pa and convert to liters, suggesting an initial volume of 33 L.
  • Final pressure is calculated by one participant using the formula P2 = P1V11.2 / V21.2, resulting in 240,002.4 Pa, but there is uncertainty about the correctness of this calculation.
  • Multiple participants express concerns about the final temperature calculations, with one suggesting the use of the ideal gas law and consistent units, while another recalculates it to be 627.1 K (or 354.1 °C).
  • There are indications of confusion regarding the application of formulas and unit conversions throughout the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct calculations for final pressure and temperature, with multiple competing views and corrections being proposed. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the accuracy of the final temperature and the appropriate formulas to use.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding unit conversions and the application of the ideal gas law, as well as unresolved mathematical steps in the calculations presented.

Lewishio
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Homework Statement
I have had a go at the following question but have gone wrong somewhere, any ideas?

A mass of 0.12 kg of air has an initial temperature of 500°C and pressure 0.8 MPa. If the air is
expanded according to the law pV1.2 = c to a final volume of 90 litres, determine

i) its initial volume,
ii) its final pressure,
iii) its final temperature.

For air, take R = 287 Jkgˉ¹ Kˉ¹.
Relevant Equations
pV = mRT
V = mRT/P
T = PV/mR
Mass = 0.12kg
Initial temp = 500°c = 773K
Initial pressure = 0.8 MPa = 800,000 Pa
Final volume = 90L
R = 287 Jkg^-1K^-1

1) Initial Volume

V=mRT/P

0.12 x 287 x 773 / 800,000 = 26,662.12m^3

2) Final Pressure

P2 = P1P2^1.2/V2^1.2

800,000 x 26,662.12^1.2 / 90 = 1,816,095,330 Pa = 1,816 MPa

3) Final Temperature

T=P2V2^1.2/mR

1,816,095,330 x 90 / 0.12 x 287 = 1,291 x 10^11 K
 
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Lewishio said:
Problem Statement: I have had a go at the following question but have gone wrong somewhere, any ideas?

A mass of 0.12 kg of air has an initial temperature of 500°C and pressure 0.8 MPa. If the air is
expanded according to the law pV1.2 = c to a final volume of 90 litres, determine

i) its initial volume,
ii) its final pressure,
iii) its final temperature.

For air, take R = 287 Jkgˉ¹ Kˉ¹.
Relevant Equations: pV = mRT
V = mRT/P
T = PV/mR

Mass = 0.12kg
Initial temp = 500°c = 773K
Initial pressure = 0.8 MPa = 800,000 Pa
Final volume = 90L
R = 287 Jkg^-1K^-1

1) Initial Volume

V=mRT/P

0.12 x 287 x 773 / 800,000 = 26,662.12m^3
You forgot to divide by 800000, and you forgot to convert to liters.
 
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Hi,

Thank you, how does this look? I think there is a problem with the formula for the final temperature as my answer is not correct.

1) Initial Volume

V=mRT/P
0.12 x 287 x 773 / 800,000 = 0.033m^3

Convert to litres:
0.033 x 1000 = 33L

2) Final Pressure

P2 = P1V1^1.2 / V2^1.2
800,000 x 33^1.2 / 90^1.2 = 240,002.4 Pa

3) Final Temperature

T = PV^1.2 / mR
240,002.4 x 90^1.2 / 0.12 x 287 = 1.27 x 10^11 K
 
Lewishio said:
Hi,

Thank you, how does this look? I think there is a problem with the formula for the final temperature as my answer is not correct.

1) Initial Volume

V=mRT/P
0.12 x 287 x 773 / 800,000 = 0.033m^3

Convert to litres:
0.033 x 1000 = 33L

2) Final Pressure

P2 = P1V1^1.2 / V2^1.2
800,000 x 33^1.2 / 90^1.2 = 240,002.4 Pa

3) Final Temperature

T = PV^1.2 / mR
240,002.4 x 90^1.2 / 0.12 x 287 = 1.27 x 10^11 K
The final temperature is incorrect. You should be using the ideal gas law. You should be using consistent units with the volume. And you should learn how to do math using parenthesis for the denominator.
 
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Hi,

I have had another go, how does this look?

PV=mRT rearranged to T= PV/mR

(240,002.4Pa x 0.09m^3) / (0.12kg x 287 Jkg^-1K^-1) = 627.1K = 354.1°c
 
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