Conditional Probability and law of total probability.

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a probability problem involving conditional probability and the law of total probability. Participants explore the scenario of distributing red and blue balls between two urns, with the outcome affecting survival. The focus is on deriving the probability of survival based on different distributions of the balls.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Luke presents a problem involving the distribution of 12 red and 12 blue balls into two urns, asking for help in deriving the probability of survival.
  • Some participants propose that the probability of choosing either urn is equal, set at 1/2, and calculate the probability of survival based on the distribution of blue balls in each urn.
  • One participant provides a formula for the probability of survival, expressed as P(A) = (12i - ki + 6k) / k(24-k), and suggests that this leads to a paradoxical conclusion regarding survival chances.
  • Another participant notes that setting i equal to k yields a higher probability of survival and mentions that the maximum probability occurs at i = k = 1, resulting in a probability of approximately 0.739.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the probability calculations, particularly regarding the maximum probability of survival and the conditions under which it occurs. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal distribution strategy.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the paradoxical nature of the problem and the surprising results that arise from different configurations of ball distributions. There is an emphasis on the conditions under which certain probabilities are maximized, but the underlying assumptions and implications are not fully settled.

luke95
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
This is a fun question i found on the internet, a bit harder than my course and I've spent hours on it but can't find a solution, i was hoping someone could help me.
Here's the situation.
You are in jail and have been sentenced to death tomorrow, however there's a way out.
you're given 12 red balls and 12 blue balls with 2 urns, you have to fully distribute the balls between these two urns. the executioner will then select an urn and draw a ball
if it is blue you live and if it is red you die.
suppose you place k balls into the first urn and 24-k into the second
suppose you put i blue balls into the first urn and 12-i into the second
Let A be the event that you live.
By conditioning on the urn that the executioner chooses, and using the law of total probability show that:

P(A) = (12i - ki + 6k) / k(24-k)

please could you explain the steps used so i can try and understand the solution and method.
Thank you in advance
Luke
 
Physics news on Phys.org
luke95 said:
This is a fun question i found on the internet, a bit harder than my course and I've spent hours on it but can't find a solution, i was hoping someone could help me.
Here's the situation.
You are in jail and have been sentenced to death tomorrow, however there's a way out.
you're given 12 red balls and 12 blue balls with 2 urns, you have to fully distribute the balls between these two urns. the executioner will then select an urn and draw a ball
if it is blue you live and if it is red you die.
suppose you place k balls into the first urn and 24-k into the second
suppose you put i blue balls into the first urn and 12-i into the second
Let A be the event that you live.
By conditioning on the urn that the executioner chooses, and using the law of total probability show that:

P(A) = (12i - ki + 6k) / k(24-k)

please could you explain the steps used so i can try and understand the solution and method.
Thank you in advance
Luke

Wellcome on MHB luke 95!... You have i blue balls over k balls in the first urn and 12 - i blue balls over 24 - k balls in the second urn. If You suppose that the probability that executioner chooses first or second urn is the same [$\frac{1}{2}$], being the favourable probability $\frac{i}{k}$ for the first urn and $\frac{12 - i}{24 - k}$ for the second urn, is... $\displaystyle PA = \frac{1}{2}\ \frac{i}{k} + \frac{1}{2}\ \frac{12 - i}{24 - k} = \frac{12\ i - k\ i + 6\ k}{k\ (24 - k)}\ (1)$ Kind regards $\chi$ $\sigma$
 
Last edited:
chisigma said:
Wellcome on MHB luke 95!... You have i blue balls over k balls in the first urn and 12 - i balls over 24 - k balls in the second urn. If You suppose that the probability that executioner chooses first or second urn is the same [$\frac{1}{2}$], being the favourable probability $\frac{i}{k}$ for the first urn and $\frac{12 - i}{24 - k}$ for the second urn, is... $\displaystyle PA = \frac{1}{2}\ \frac{i}{k} + \frac{1}{2}\ \frac{12 - i}{24 - k} = \frac{12\ i - k\ i + 6\ k}{k\ (24 - k)}\ (1)$ Kind regards $\chi$ $\sigma$

thank you very much :)
 
chisigma said:
Wellcome on MHB luke 95!... You have i blue balls over k balls in the first urn and 12 - i blue balls over 24 - k balls in the second urn. If You suppose that the probability that executioner chooses first or second urn is the same [$\frac{1}{2}$], being the favourable probability $\frac{i}{k}$ for the first urn and $\frac{12 - i}{24 - k}$ for the second urn, is... $\displaystyle PA = \frac{1}{2}\ \frac{i}{k} + \frac{1}{2}\ \frac{12 - i}{24 - k} = \frac{12\ i - k\ i + 6\ k}{k\ (24 - k)}\ (1)$ Kind regards $\chi$ $\sigma$

The question proposed by luke95 is 'veryvery interesting' because it leads to a paradoxical conclusion [not unusual in probability ...]. Anybody at first can imagine that at least the chance to survive can be one half but it isn't true. If You look at the (1) in my post You realize that choosing i=k in any case the probability of survive is greater. With a simple further analysis You discover that PA has its maximum for i= k = 1 and in this case is $PA = \frac{17}{23} \sim .739$... incredible!...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
5K