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Consciousness the Source of gravity

  1. Jul 24, 2003 #1
    Hi science folks. As conversed from the previous topic "WHAT IF there is no God..", and due to 'insistent demand' ,here is my postulation. It occured during a candid discussion we once had about 2 years ago at a physics chatroom when someone inquired what gravity is, but then I noticed that answering it had been like going in circles, so eventaully this postulation surfaced as my answer.

    I had preferred to be into art, and I had been finding interest on physics while doing some personal searching. I tend to be an independent thinker, so maybe some of my ideas aren't necessarily on the books, but I believe, and by experience, those who had also been aware will notice it. Although I don't have much on the technicalities of the physics language, however I had been finding it interesting as a language tool to express what otherwise had been abstract or visual musings on my part. With regards to my being a physics enthusiast I could rather express through some basic languages, so it would be of interest for us to understand better on sharing views, to speak on a language "simple enough for a child to understand, and profound enough to confound a king." (-rocket)

    I don't often access the internet though(consider it some of 3rd world blues), so I would encourage folks to go on discussing the issue while time and dimes are being chased over here; however whenever possible I will see to visit this thread. It's also admirable at the way science scrutinizes flakes in a concept, so it would be encouraged (just don't hide on closemindedness). It would be interesting to share ideas when it is perceived from different endeavors and angles, the view could be more panoramic.

    Here it is:

    Gravity is said to be caused by the curvature in
    space. but it seemed like a chicken-egg dilemma.

    In the theory it's squared the speed of light in
    mass and mass is present in the curvature. Among perceivers of eastern philosophy it’s been said that Consciousness is in the realm of C^2. The realm of matter cannot bound it for matter cannot reach lightspeed (I postulate it just duplicates, but that’s another story). It is not even enough to contain it just in a boundary of a space-time dimension or by limits of machinations (Materialism seemed to be an attempt at manipulating objectivity for someone’s subjective motive, rather than perceiving its environment as relative to one another). Consciousness can pierce the barrier beyond it or lightspeed. Consciousness is vital in space and time; the Observer.

    There is the core source of Gravity. To
    a profound degree Consciousness is within that core,
    the source of curvature, mass created by it,
    and gravity is the manifestation of the presence of Consciousness.

    “The boundaries of one’s universe may not be outside the individual, but within him/her.” – rocket
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2003
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 24, 2003 #2
  4. Jul 24, 2003 #3
    Can you please explain me, how do you come to know that consciousness?
  5. Jul 24, 2003 #4
  6. Jul 24, 2003 #5
    Whose consciousness are you talking about? Is there a collective consciousness, or a universal consciousness, that permeates everything? And how does this affect gravity?
  7. Jul 24, 2003 #6
    To the best of my knowledge, gravity is a function of energy, the same energy that is what composes matter, and that is not quite the same energy that is what is consciousness, caaaaaause, if it was, we would have found human consciousness, by now, as we can detect those kinds of energies.

    Simple enough?
  8. Jul 24, 2003 #7
    More new-age silliness. Consciousness is a complex process of many different parts. Consciousness needs other stuff, including gravity, to exist, not the other way around. If it wasn't for gravity already existing, the environmental conditions for organisms to develop would not exist..just ever and fastly expanding matter and light would be the state of things.
  9. Jul 24, 2003 #8

    Ivan Seeking

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    Somebody reboot M. Gaspar

    I think he froze up...

    As soon as he reboots ask for the exact value of pi.
  10. Jul 24, 2003 #9
    1. Can someone disable these *blinking* avatars, and can it be set as a rule that *blinking* avatars are not done.

    2. Shall we explain to Mr. Rocket Art that he has a perception of reality that is nothing less then that of Solipsism, and that actually the world exists outside of his mind also?

    3. M. Gaspar. You can stop processing now. Thanks.
  11. Jul 24, 2003 #10

    Ivan Seeking

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    From a purely objective point of view, I don't think we can rule out the possibility that if ever understood in a philosophical way, the seat of consciousness and gravity are, in a very profound way, the same thing. To a point I can even make a physical argument for this now. The Maxwell’s Demons paradox is resolved with the realization that information is energy. Surely information relates to consciousness; therefore this aspect of consciousness has mass.

    Until we have a complete M [or now I read N?] or Grand Unified Theory, we can't really speak to the essence of either energy or consciousness. Even then we may find that enlightenment eludes us.

    Edit: What, beyond information, is consciousness?
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2003
  12. Jul 24, 2003 #11

    Ivan Seeking

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    You can go to your user options and disable avatars.
  13. Jul 24, 2003 #12


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    ivan, you have an eloquent way of stating things in a simple yet objective manner...perhaps this theory is considered new age silliness because of the intangibleness of consciousness?
  14. Jul 24, 2003 #13

    Ivan Seeking

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    Ah shucks

    It just struck me that even though what rocket art said sounded far fetched, I recognized an element of truth from a particularly interesting physics lecture from college.

    I don't think we have even come close to terms with QM, GR, and the implications for our view of reality. I think we rightly resist such drastic perturbations in our world view.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2003
  15. Jul 24, 2003 #14
    Sure, information relates to consciousness. Consciousness is mass moving around. Now where does the consciousness creates gravity part come in?

    Why not? Are you saying that we must know everything before we can know anything? That's a rediculous paradox which means that you can know nothing, not even the paradox itself or that you know nothing.

    Consciosness is the process of experiencing.
  16. Jul 25, 2003 #15
    Hmm ... Gravity as a source from within ...
  17. Jul 25, 2003 #16
    What is so intangible about consciousness? That's what bugs the carp out of me! I mean no offense, but without consciousness, how would we even know that we exist? And what would there be to discuss then? Hmm ... that seems to give a lot of "gravity" to the situation right there. :wink:

    Yes, I think it would be fair to say that consciousness is "the ground" of our true being. And that's gravity man! :wink:
  18. Jul 25, 2003 #17

    Ivan Seeking

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    It can be shown that information, as opposed to random bits, can do work. If you review the paradox of Maxwell's Demon's - sorry if this is obvious but I'm not a philosopher by education - we find that structured information contains energy. This is a fundamental relationship that must be true regardless of how it is created and stored. This is akin to a second law argument about why a free energy machine can't work. I don't care how the machine is supposed to work, by the 2nd law I know that it can't. If information exists, so must stored energy and therefore gravity. This revelation solved a 100 year old paradox in physics.

    Edit: I should say that the paradox was about information and energy. The gravity part comes from GR.

    We can only imagine incomplete physical models to explain what is observed. Without a GUT we can never know if they are really correct or merely feeble imposters that may or may not even satisfy our sensibilities.

    I don't know how the gravitational field of consciousness happens, but I understand that it must. This at least is my understanding of the state of the physics to this effect. My head grows heavy with all of this talk of information.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2003
  19. Jul 25, 2003 #18
    Yep, without gravity we couldn't stand upright. And neither could the soul, without consciousness! :wink:

    So, perhaps consciousness is the metaphysical counterpart to gravity? ... Or, gravity itself?
  20. Jul 25, 2003 #19


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    Well some philosophers make a big distinction between our apperception of qualia and cognition. They give examples like Nagel's What is it like to be a Bat. You can know all about bats - have as much information on the subject as you like - but that doesn't call up in you the sense of what it's like to be a bat.

    Or there's the color theorist Mary, who suffers from an eye disease that makes her see the world in black and white. She's the world expert on color science, has all the information about colors, but she can't SEE colors.

    By the way, I really liked your maxwell's emon argument that information is equivalent to (free) energy and hence has equavalent mass. I wonder how that affects the information problem of black holes.
  21. Jul 25, 2003 #20
    Perhaps it's your consciousness that keeps the planet earth in orbit?
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