Conservation of angular momentum and change in rotational kinetic energy

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between angular momentum, moment of inertia, angular velocity, and rotational kinetic energy, particularly in scenarios where the radius of rotation is altered. Participants explore the implications of these changes on kinetic energy and the work-energy theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why rotational kinetic energy increases by a factor of 4 when angular momentum is conserved, moment of inertia decreases by a factor of 1/4, and angular velocity increases by a factor of 4.
  • Another participant explains that while angular momentum is conserved, the work-energy theorem indicates that work must be done to change the moment of inertia, which results in an increase in kinetic energy.
  • A further contribution discusses the mechanics of pulling an object closer to the center, emphasizing that the force applied does work on the object, leading to an increase in kinetic energy.
  • One participant suggests that a mathematical error is present in the initial reasoning regarding the relationship between moment of inertia and kinetic energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between changes in moment of inertia, angular velocity, and rotational kinetic energy. There is no consensus on the initial claim regarding kinetic energy remaining constant.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the work-energy theorem and the dynamics of circular motion, but the discussion does not resolve the mathematical relationships or assumptions underlying the claims made.

chamddol
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
I have a question regarding angular momentum and rot kinetic energy. For example, if angular momentum is conserved, and the radius is cut in half, then moment of inertia is reduced by a fourth, which will result in increase in angular velocity by factor of 4. My question is why is the rotational kinetic energy increase by a factor of 4 also. Since the equation of rot kinetic energy is (1/2)Iw^2, the new w increased by factor of 4 but the new I also decreased by factor of 1/4. So wouldn't KE stay the same?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
welcome to pf!

hi chamddol! welcome to pf! :smile:
chamddol said:
… if angular momentum is conserved, and the radius is cut in half, then moment of inertia is reduced by a fourth, … why is the rotational kinetic energy increase by a factor of 4 also … wouldn't KE stay the same?

as you know, angular momentum is always conserved (if there's no external torque, of course)

in a "collision" situation, (mechanical) energy usually isn't conserved, but if the changes are gradual (as here), yes we would usually expect it to be conserved

however, that's forgetting the work energy theorem … work done = change in mechanical energy

imagine that you're rotating on ice, and you're holding onto a heavy mass on a rope

if you pull the rope in, the total energy increases because you are doing work (force "dot" distance) by pulling the mass in :wink:

when you reduce the moment of inertia of any rotating mass, you have to do work! :smile:
 
chamddol said:
Since the equation of rot kinetic energy is (1/2)Iw^2, the new w increased by factor of 4 but the new I also decreased by factor of 1/4. So wouldn't KE stay the same?

Er - no. Think that through again. You've reduced I by a factor of 4, and increased w by a factor of 4, so you've increased w^2 by a factor of ...?
 
chamddol said:
I have a question regarding angular momentum and rot kinetic energy. [...] radius is cut in half, [...] will result in increase in angular velocity by factor of 4. My question is why is the rotational kinetic energy increase by a factor of 4 also.

attachment.php?attachmentid=46972&stc=1&d=1336163618.png


Expanding on the answer given by tiny-tim:
The curved line in the diagram represents the trajectory of an object that is pulled closer to the center. The dark grey arrow represents the centripetal force.

Now, in the case of perfectly circular motion the centripetal force is at all times perpendicular to the instantaneous velocity, and hence there is no change of kinetic energy. But here, with the object being pulled closer to the center, the exerted force is not perpendicular to the instantaneous velocity.

You can think of the force as decomposed, one component perpendicular to the instantaneous velocity and one paralllel to the instantaneous velocity. The perpendicular component causes change of direction, the parallel component causes acceleration.

So in the process of pulling closer to the center you are doing work upon the object. This is big: by the time you've managed to reduce the radial distance by half you have quadrupled the kinetic energy.


In general: when you have an object in circumnavigating motion, and you pull that object closer to the center, then the acceleration occurs because you are doing work upon that object.
 

Attachments

  • force_decomposition_256x256.png
    force_decomposition_256x256.png
    1.5 KB · Views: 2,051
haruspex is right. Its a simple mathematical error.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 60 ·
3
Replies
60
Views
7K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 138 ·
5
Replies
138
Views
9K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K