Conservation of Energy w/ Frictional Forces

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves the conservation of energy in a scenario where a rock slides down a hillside, taking into account gravitational potential energy and frictional forces. The rock's mass, the height of the hill, and the coefficient of kinetic friction are provided, leading to questions about energy transformations during the slide.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the calculation of gravitational potential energy and the work done by friction. There are questions about the distance used in calculations and the sign of the work done by friction. Some participants attempt to clarify the geometry of the problem.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing clarification regarding the interpretation of the problem's parameters, particularly the dimensions involved in the calculations. Some participants have provided insights into potential misinterpretations, but no consensus has been reached on the correct approach to the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the correct interpretation of the triangle formed by the hillside, specifically the identification of the hypotenuse and the implications for the calculations of forces and energy. There is also a focus on the assumptions regarding the direction of forces and energy transfer.

maxhersch
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Homework Statement


During a rockslide, a 710 kg rock slides from rest down a hillside that is 500 m long and 300 m high. The coefficient of kinetic friction between the rock and the hill surface is 0.23.
https://physicsforums-bernhardtmediall.netdna-ssl.com/data/attachments/57/57890-5a3321dd6b8a58eb42038e3fc5bbe5e1.jpg
(a) If the gravitational potential energy U of the rock-Earth system is set to zero at the bottom of the hill, what is the value of U just before the slide?
(b) How much energy is transferred to thermal energy during the slide?
(c) What is the kinetic energy of the rock as it reaches the bottom of the hill?

Homework Equations


U[/B]=mgh
N=mgcosθ
Fƒ=μN
Wƒ=Fƒdcosθ

The Attempt at a Solution


a)[/B] Easy. Uο=(710)(9.8)(300)=2087400 J (Accepted as correct answer)

b) θ=tan-1(300/500)=31°
N=(710)(9.8)cos(31)=5964.2 N
Fƒ=(.23)(5964.2)=1371.8 N
Wƒ=(1371.8)(583.1)cos(180°)=-799896.6 J (This was not accepted as correct answer)

(c)
Uο+Kο=Uf+Kf+Wƒ
2087400+0=0+Kf+799896.6
Kf=1287503.4 J (Also not accepted as correct answer)Please let me know where I went wrong.
 

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maxhersch said:
Wƒ=(1371.8)(583.1)cos(180°)=-799896.6 J
Where did the 583.1 come from?
Should the answer be positive or negative?
 
haruspex said:
Where did the 583.1 come from?
Should the answer be positive or negative?

583.1 is the distance the rock slides found by the Pythagorean Theorem √3002+5002. I tried both positive and negative with those answers. I assume the work done by friction is always negative since it is opposite the motion. and the kinetic energy should be positive because the velocity would be in the positive x-direction.
 
You misinterpreted the problem. The 500 is the hypotenuse.

Chet
 
Chestermiller said:
You misinterpreted the problem. The 500 is the hypotenuse.

Chet
... which means this is also wrong:
θ=tan-1(300/500)​
 
Chestermiller said:
You misinterpreted the problem. The 500 is the hypotenuse.

Chet

Ahh knew I missed something basic. Thanks a lot.
 

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