Grasshopper
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PeterDonis said:As I have already pointed out and you have already agreed, this is the wrong question to ask because it doesn't make sense. In a special relativistic universe what you are calling "classical momentum" is simply a physically meaningless mathematical quantity. There is no reason to expect it to be conserved in the first place.
The correct question to ask is simply, what is the correct relativistic formula for momentum, and how is it derived? And I've already answered the last part (integrate force with respect to time).I did. See above.And why would you want to do any of this? What is it supposed to accomplish?And to do that, as I have already said, you would integrate force with respect to distance. Which is not at all what you are doing.Why would that mean anything?
(I understand that, if you already know that ##m \gamma u## is the correct relativistic formula for momentum, then taking its time derivative gives the force. But you are trying to derive the correct relativistic formula for momentum; you can't do that by assuming it. You need to start with force, as I said, and integrate it with respect to time. Similarly, to get KE, as I said, you would integrate force with respect to distance, which is what you are trying to do by integrating over ##dx##, but you can't get the formula for force from the formula for momentum; you need to do it the other way around.)
The purpose of all this is to trace the train of thought of someone new to the concept of momentum in relativity, someone who's been taught their whole life that p=mu and that this value is conserved, and how they might be convinced on an intuitive level. Someone who isn't well versed enough on a mathematical level to understand group theory, or invariance.
p=mu is, IMHO, one of the most intuitive things in physics, and then to be confronted with the notion that either that value isn't actually conserved, or the intuitive definition of momentum is wrong, could for some people be pretty jarring.
I don't know if that's an acceptable reason to ask the question, but I did some searching through textbooks today and I found that the example I presented here is actually used.
Modern Physics for Scientists and Engingeers, Fourth Edition, by Thronton (Chapter 2.11, page 58)
[link deleted for copyright reasons]I suppose I probably should have started there, but it was nice to reason my way through it. According to Thronton, it is indeed that additional gamma factor which prevents the change in momentum from being zero, which shows that classical momentum cannot be conserved.
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