Conserved charge from Lorentz symmetry

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the conserved charge associated with Lorentz symmetry in the context of Noether's theorem. Participants explore the formulation of the Noether current and its relation to the energy-momentum tensor, addressing potential errors in the derivation and clarifying the definitions involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to derive the Noether current for Lorentz transformations but encounters a factor of 2 that seems incorrect.
  • Another participant suggests that the general form of the Noether current involves a variation in the field that relates to the energy-momentum tensor.
  • There is a discussion about the consistency of the derivation with a referenced document, specifically regarding the treatment of scalar fields and the definitions of variations.
  • Participants question the use of different notations for field variations, with one participant noting a discrepancy between their approach and that in the referenced article.
  • Clarifications are provided regarding the relationship between the variations used in different contexts, particularly when involving the energy-momentum tensor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct formulation of the Noether current and the appropriate definitions of field variations. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing interpretations presented.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the variations of the fields and the specific forms of the Noether current. The discussion highlights the dependence on definitions and the potential for different interpretations in the context of Lorentz symmetry.

spookyfish
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I am trying to derive the conserved charge from the symmetry of the action under Lorentz transformations, but I am doing something wrong.
Noether's theorem states that the current is
<br /> J^\mu = \frac{\partial \cal L}{\partial(\partial_\mu \phi)} \delta\phi - T^{\mu \nu}\delta x_\nu<br />
For an infinitesimal Lorentz transformations
<br /> \Lambda^\mu _\nu = \delta^\mu_\nu +\omega ^\mu_\nu<br />
I get
\delta x_\nu = \omega_{\nu \sigma} x^\sigma, \quad \delta \phi = -\omega^\mu _\nu x^\nu \partial_\mu \phi
This gives
<br /> J^\mu = \frac{\partial \cal L}{\partial(\partial_\mu \phi)}(-\omega^\nu _\sigma x^\sigma \partial_\nu \phi) -T^{\mu \nu}\omega_{\nu \sigma} x^\sigma<br />
where
<br /> T^{\mu \nu} = \frac{\partial \cal L}{\partial(\partial_\mu \phi)} \partial^\nu \phi -\cal L \eta^{\mu \nu}<br />
so
<br /> J^\mu = -\omega_{\nu \sigma} x^\sigma \left(2\frac{\partial \cal L}{\partial(\partial_\mu \phi)}\partial^\nu \phi - \cal L \eta^{\mu \nu} \right)<br />
this is "almost" the correct form but I have this factor of 2 which is wrong. I will be happy to know where is my mistake
 
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spookyfish said:
I am trying to derive the conserved charge from the symmetry of the action under Lorentz transformations, but I am doing something wrong.
Noether's theorem states that the current is
<br /> J^\mu = \frac{\partial \cal L}{\partial(\partial_\mu \phi)} \delta\phi - T^{\mu \nu}\delta x_\nu<br />
For an infinitesimal Lorentz transformations
<br /> \Lambda^\mu _\nu = \delta^\mu_\nu +\omega ^\mu_\nu<br />
I get
\delta x_\nu = \omega_{\nu \sigma} x^\sigma, \quad \delta \phi = -\omega^\mu _\nu x^\nu \partial_\mu \phi
This gives
<br /> J^\mu = \frac{\partial \cal L}{\partial(\partial_\mu \phi)}(-\omega^\nu _\sigma x^\sigma \partial_\nu \phi) -T^{\mu \nu}\omega_{\nu \sigma} x^\sigma<br />
where
<br /> T^{\mu \nu} = \frac{\partial \cal L}{\partial(\partial_\mu \phi)} \partial^\nu \phi -\cal L \eta^{\mu \nu}<br />
so
<br /> J^\mu = -\omega_{\nu \sigma} x^\sigma \left(2\frac{\partial \cal L}{\partial(\partial_\mu \phi)}\partial^\nu \phi - \cal L \eta^{\mu \nu} \right)<br />
this is "almost" the correct form but I have this factor of 2 which is wrong. I will be happy to know where is my mistake

Exactly what is it that you are doing here? You want to substitute stuff in a formula to get the same formula back?
The general form of Noether current is
J^{ \mu } = \frac{ \partial \mathcal{L} }{ \partial ( \partial_{ \mu } \phi ) } \delta \phi + \delta x^{ \mu } \mathcal{L} ,
where \delta \phi ( x ) = \bar{ \phi } ( x ) - \phi ( x ). When you rewrite the current in terms of the energy momentum tensor, you get
J^{ \mu } = \frac{ \partial \mathcal{L} }{ \partial ( \partial_{ \mu } \phi ) } \delta^{ * } \phi ( x ) - T^{ \mu }{}_{ \nu } \delta x^{ \nu } ,
where now the variation in the field is given by
\delta^{ * } \phi ( x ) = \bar{ \phi } ( \bar{ x } ) - \phi ( x ) = \bar{ \phi } ( x + \delta x ) - \phi ( x ) .
When you expand to 1st order in \delta x you find that the two variations are related by
\delta^{ * } \phi ( x ) = \delta \phi ( x ) + \delta x^{ \mu } \partial_{ \mu } \phi ( x ) .
For scalar field \delta^{ * } \phi ( x ) = 0, this implies J^{ \mu } = -\delta x^{ \nu } T^{ \mu }{}_{ \nu }.
 
Last edited:
spookyfish said:
I understand what you say. How is it then consistent with
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/tong/qft/one.pdf
Eqs. (1.51) and (1.52)?

Very consistent. The field in (1.51) is a scalar field.
\bar{ \phi } ( \bar{ x } ) = \phi ( x ) , \ \ \Rightarrow \ \ \delta^{*} \phi = 0 .
Use x = \Lambda^{ - 1 } \bar{ x } and rename the coordinates x, (i.e. drop the bar from \bar{ x }), you get \bar{ \phi } ( x ) = \phi ( \Lambda^{ - 1 } x ). Now, if you expand this, as they did, you find that \delta \phi = - \delta x^{ \mu } \partial_{ \mu } \phi
 
but why in my formula you use \delta^* \phi \equiv \phi&#039;(x&#039;)-\phi(x) and in the article it is \delta \phi = \phi&#039;(x) -\phi(x)?
 
spookyfish said:
but why in my formula you use \delta^* \phi \equiv \phi&#039;(x&#039;)-\phi(x) and in the article it is \delta \phi = \phi&#039;(x) -\phi(x)?
Look at it again. In the article, he uses the current which does not involve T, this is why he used \delta \phi. If you want to start with the form of J^{ \mu } which involves the tensor T^{ \mu \nu }, then you must use \delta^{ * }\phi, as I explained in my first post.
 

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