Constant Current in Batteries? How?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of constant current in batteries, exploring the electrochemical processes involved, the relationship between voltage and current, and the implications of resistive loads on current flow. Participants raise questions about the nature of current in batteries, the differences between battery types, and the underlying principles of electrical potential difference.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how a constant current can exist in a battery, given that current is defined as the change in charge over time.
  • Another participant explains that constant current batteries are not typical in primary cells, which are designed for constant voltage, and that nuclear cells may operate in constant current mode.
  • Several participants discuss the relationship between current and resistive loads, noting that current is not constant in a standard battery setup and varies with the load applied.
  • There is a debate about the nature of electron flow and potential difference, with some arguing that electrons flow due to potential difference, while others suggest a more complex interaction involving charge motion and electric fields.
  • Participants question the proportionality of voltage and current, referencing Ohm's Law and discussing whether the reverse relationship holds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of current in batteries, the implications of potential difference, or the relationship between voltage and current. Multiple competing views remain regarding these concepts.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the behavior of electrons, the definitions of current and voltage, and the effects of resistive loads, which are not fully resolved.

plazprestige
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I do not know the exact electrochemical reactions which make a battery work, but I understand that the essential anatomy of a battery is a cathode and an anode separated by an electrolyte, and the anode absorbs electrons. When the battery is connected to a wire, the electrons move from the anode tot he cathode, producing a current.

I have two questions.

Due to the electrical potential difference, it would follow reason that the electrons would accelerate toward the cathode when a wire is connected. If this is the case, then how is there a constant current in the battery if current is defined by dq/dt (change in charge over time)?

Secondly, what is the difference between two batteries of different voltage? How is the electrical potential difference lowered or increased? (more of an engineering question)

Thanks in advance for responses. I am new to to these forums and hope to learn as well as contribute.
 
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Constant current batteries are not produced in primary cells, such as lead-acid, NiCd, Alkaline, NiMH, etc., because constant voltage works better. Cells are constructed to produce constant voltage. As load current is demanded, the voltage drops due to internal resistance. By minimizing resistance, better voltage stability is obtained.

Nuclear cells are still being developed. These cells work better in the constant current mode. The voltage changes as the load varies but the current reamains approximately constant. Any battery bought for commercial use is the constant voltage type.
 
Last edited:
So the current in a wire connected to a standard 12 V battery is not constant?
 
plazprestige said:
So the current in a wire connected to a standard 12 V battery is not constant?

The current in a wire connected to a standard battery is a function of the resistive load to which the battery is applied.

If you mean JUST a wire then you have a short circuit and all bets are off (except for the fact that you are likely to get a VERY hot wire and/or battery)
 
I guess I'm not being very clear, as the response does not answer my question. I am not asking about the engineering of the battery itself which allows it to function (except for my second question on how batteries increase voltage), but rather how the basic principles which allow batteries to work are leading me to believe something which does not occur.
 
plazprestige said:
Due to the electrical potential difference, it would follow reason that the electrons would accelerate toward the cathode when a wire is connected.

No. Crudely speaking, the atoms in the wire get in the way, so there is a terminal velocity. It's not like a cathode-ray tube in which the electrons travel through vacuum.
 
An electric wire has millions-trillions of electrons. Therefore, the process never ends up. Electrons keep flowing and flowing till there is a potential difference.
 
physics kiddy said:
An electric wire has millions-trillions of electrons. Therefore, the process never ends up. Electrons keep flowing and flowing till there is a potential difference.

Seems to me you have cause and effect backwards here. Electrons don't flow "until there is a potential difference", they flow BECAUSE there is a potential difference.
 
phinds said:
Seems to me you have cause and effect backwards here. Electrons don't flow "until there is a potential difference", they flow BECAUSE there is a potential difference.

Actually it's not a cause and effect thing, but rather, a chicken and egg thing. In order to create a PD (potential difference) charges must move and separate. Then when that happens, other charges can be influenced by the associated electric field due to charge separation and move as result.

Is PD "caused" by charge motion, or is charge motion "caused" by PD? Actually it's both. The problem with thinking that charges move because of PD lies with the flow inside the battery. The charges inside are literally moving AGAINST the electric field, i.e. "uphill". Hence these charges are not moving BEACAUSE of PD, but rather their motion gives rise to the PD. The charges outside the battery are going "downhill", and they move due to E field influence or PD.

Claude
 
  • #10
cabraham said:
Actually it's not a cause and effect thing, but rather, a chicken and egg thing. In order to create a PD (potential difference) charges must move and separate. Then when that happens, other charges can be influenced by the associated electric field due to charge separation and move as result.

Is PD "caused" by charge motion, or is charge motion "caused" by PD? Actually it's both. The problem with thinking that charges move because of PD lies with the flow inside the battery. The charges inside are literally moving AGAINST the electric field, i.e. "uphill". Hence these charges are not moving BEACAUSE of PD, but rather their motion gives rise to the PD. The charges outside the battery are going "downhill", and they move due to E field influence or PD.

Claude

That's a good explanation and certainly seems right for a battery. thanks.
 
  • #11
phinds said:
The current in a wire connected to a standard battery is a function of the resistive load to which the battery is applied.


And the current in a given wire does not just change overall depending on the resistive nature of the rest of the things in the circuit, it also changes from moment to moment as the other parts of the circuit operate. For instance, a bulb slowly heats up after being turned on, and becomes more resistive in the process, thereby drawing less current from the battery through the wire.
 
  • #12
I know that current is directly proportional to voltage but how is voltage directly proportional to current ?
 
  • #13
physics kiddy said:
I know that current is directly proportional to voltage but how is voltage directly proportional to current ?

HUH ? Do you know Ohms Law?
 
  • #14
Our teacher said so when he was describing Ohm's Law. I agree that current is directly proportional to voltage but how is the reverse possible.
 
  • #15
Well let me ask you the question in math. If A is proportional to B, it B proportional to A?
 
  • #16
Yes, it is...
 
  • #17
phinds said:
Well let me ask you the question in math. If A is proportional to B, it B proportional to A?

Then what's your problem?
 

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