Continuity of Functions Proof | f and g Continuous at x | h = fg Continuity

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the continuity of the product of two functions, f and g, at a point x, given that both functions are continuous at that point. Participants are exploring the implications of continuity and the application of a lemma related to boundedness.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the validity of setting M to zero in the context of the lemma, with some suggesting alternative definitions for M. Others are exploring how to properly set epsilon and delta in relation to the continuity of f and g.

Discussion Status

There is an active exploration of the definitions and constraints related to the lemma, with participants providing constructive criticism and proposing adjustments to their reasoning. Multiple interpretations of how to apply the lemma and continuity definitions are being discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express concerns about the dependency of epsilon on y, indicating a need for it to be independent. There is also a sense of frustration regarding the perceived complexity of the approach being discussed.

tylerc1991
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Homework Statement



Given two functions [itex]f[/itex] and [itex]g[/itex], if [itex]f[/itex] and [itex]g[/itex] are continuous at a point [itex]x[/itex], then the function [itex]h = fg[/itex] is continuous at [itex]x[/itex].

Homework Equations



Lemma 1
If a function [itex]f[/itex] is continuous at a point [itex]x[/itex], then f is bounded on some interval centered at [itex]x[/itex]. That is, there exists an [itex]M \geq 0[/itex] and a [itex]\delta > 0[/itex] such that for all [itex]y[/itex],
[itex]|x - y| < \delta \implies |f(y)| \leq M.[/itex]

The Attempt at a Solution

Let [itex]f[/itex] and [itex]g[/itex] be functions that are continuous at a point [itex]x[/itex].
Define a new function [itex]h[/itex] as [itex]h = fg[/itex].
Let [itex]\varepsilon > 0[/itex] and [itex]\delta_1 > 0[/itex].
If [itex]f(x) = 0[/itex], then it is trivially true that for all [itex]y[/itex],
[itex]\displaystyle |x - y| < \delta_1 \implies |f(x)||g(x) - g(y)| < \varepsilon,[/itex]
so assume [itex]f(x) \neq 0[/itex].
Now, suppose [itex]\displaystyle \mu = \frac{\varepsilon}{|f(x)|}[/itex].
Clearly [itex]\mu[/itex] is a positive real number.
Since [itex]g[/itex] is continuous at [itex]x[/itex], for all [itex]\varepsilon[/itex], there exists a [itex]\delta_1[/itex] such that
[itex]|x - y| < \delta_1 \implies |g(x) - g(y)| < \mu. \quad \quad (1)[/itex]
Let [itex]M = 0[/itex]. Lemma 1 states that, since [itex]g[/itex] is continuous, there exists a [itex]\delta_2 > 0[/itex] such that [itex]|x - y| < \delta_2 \implies |g(y)| \leq M = 0.[/itex] So,
[itex]|x - y| < \delta_2 \implies |g(y)| = 0. \quad \quad (2)[/itex]
Let [itex]\delta = \text{min}( \delta_1, \delta_2 )[/itex]. Then [itex]|x - y| < \delta[/itex] implies
[itex]|h(x) - h(y)| = |f(x)g(x) - f(y)g(y)|[/itex]
[itex]= |f(x)g(x) - f(x)g(y) + f(x)g(y) - f(y)g(y)|[/itex]
[itex]\leq |f(x)g(x) - f(x)g(y)| + |f(x)g(y) - f(y)g(y)|[/itex]
[itex]= |f(x)||g(x) - g(y)| + |g(y)||f(x) - f(y)|[/itex]
[itex]< |f(x)| \mu + 0 = \varepsilon.[/itex] QED

Pointing out any mistakes / giving constructive criticism is welcome. Thank you very much!
 
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tylerc1991 said:
Let [itex]M = 0[/itex]. Lemma 1 states that, since [itex]g[/itex] is continuous, there exists a [itex]\delta_2 > 0[/itex] such that [itex]|x - y| < \delta_2 \implies |g(y)| \leq M = 0.[/itex] So,

You can't just set M=0. All lemma 1 says is that there exists an M, but that M is potentially very large. You have no control over what value M has. So saying that M=0 is not ok.
 
Could I say that [itex]M = \frac{\varepsilon}{2|f(x) - f(y)|}[/itex]?
Then [itex]M \geq 0[/itex]

Then I would have to reset [itex]\mu = \frac{\varepsilon}{2|f(x)|}[/itex] in order for everything to cancel and add up to [itex]\varepsilon[/itex]
 
tylerc1991 said:
Could I say that [itex]M = \frac{\varepsilon}{2|f(x) - f(y)|}[/itex]?
Then [itex]M \geq 0[/itex]

Then I would have to reset [itex]\mu = \frac{\varepsilon}{2|f(x)|}[/itex] in order for everything to cancel and add to [itex]\varepsilon[/itex]

No, you cannot choose M. You can choose epsilon though.
 
micromass said:
No, you cannot choose M. You can choose epsilon though.

So the lemma is pretty pointless in this case? Can I try something like:

I know that since [itex]f[/itex] is continuous, I can choose a [itex]\delta > 0[/itex] such that

[itex]|x - y| < \delta \implies |f(x) - f(y)| < \frac{\varepsilon}{2|g(y)|}[/itex]?
 
tylerc1991 said:
So the lemma is pretty pointless in this case? Can I try something like:

I know that since [itex]f[/itex] is continuous, I can choose a [itex]\delta > 0[/itex] such that

[itex]|x - y| < \delta \implies |f(x) - f(y)| < \frac{\varepsilon}{2|g(y)|}[/itex]?

No since your "epsilon" is [itex]\frac{\varepsilon}{2|g(y)|}[/itex] and is dependent on y. It shouldn't be dependent on y. It can depend on x, though.
 
OK, since [itex]g[/itex] is continuous, we may say that there exists a [itex]\delta_1[/itex]

[itex]|x - y| < \delta_1 \implies |g(y)| < |g(x)| + 1[/itex].

Also, since [itex]f[/itex] is continuous, there exists a [itex]\delta_2[/itex] such that

[itex]|x - y| < \delta_2 \implies |f(x) - f(y)| < \frac{\varepsilon}{2(|g(x)| + 1)}[/itex].

This would cancel fine and would add to [itex]\varepsilon[/itex] in the end, but this way seems so roundabout. Is there no nicer way?
 
tylerc1991 said:
OK, since [itex]g[/itex] is continuous, we may say that there exists a [itex]\delta_1[/itex]

[itex]|x - y| < \delta_1 \implies |g(y)| < |g(x)| + 1[/itex].

Also, since [itex]f[/itex] is continuous, there exists a [itex]\delta_2[/itex] such that

[itex]|x - y| < \delta_2 \implies |f(x) - f(y)| < \frac{\varepsilon}{2(|g(x)| + 1)}[/itex].

This would cancel fine and would add to [itex]\varepsilon[/itex] in the end, but this way seems so roundabout. Is there no nicer way?

Thay seems ok! :smile:
 

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