Contribution of the air in the jet aircraft engine

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the contribution of air in jet aircraft engines, specifically focusing on the momentum change due to both fuel and air. Participants explore the mechanics of how air interacts with fuel in the engine and its role in generating thrust.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formula for total forward force on an engine, questioning the physical meaning of the term involving air momentum.
  • Another participant clarifies that ##v_{0}## represents the velocity of air entering the engine, while ##v## is the velocity of the air after passing through the engine, suggesting that the difference indicates the change in air velocity.
  • Some participants assert that while energy comes from the fuel reaction, the momentum primarily transfers to the air, contrasting this with rocket engines that rely solely on fuel for both energy and propellant mass.
  • There is a discussion about the correct interpretation of ##v_{0}## and ##v##, with some participants agreeing on the need to clarify these terms based on diagrams and descriptions in the literature.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the definitions in the book, leading to further clarification on how the change in air velocity and fuel mass loss contribute to the aircraft's momentum change.
  • One participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the definitions of ##v_{0}## and ##v##, indicating a correction in their earlier statement.
  • Another participant compares jet engines to piston engines and rocket engines, noting that jet engines occupy a middle ground in terms of momentum transfer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit some agreement on the roles of air and fuel in momentum change, yet there remains uncertainty regarding the definitions of ##v_{0}## and ##v##, indicating that the discussion is not fully resolved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the definitions of variables in the momentum equation, as well as the specific roles of air and fuel in the thrust generation process.

duarthiago
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I've read that the total forward force on an engine is given by a change of momentum which is written as ##P = \mu_{fuel}v_{0} + \mu_{air}(v_{0}-v) ##, where ##\mu_{fuel}##, ##\mu_{air}##, ##v_{0}## and ##v## are respectively the rate of decrease of mass of the fuel being burnt, the rate which the air is being carried through the engine, the velocity of the material ejected by the engine and finally the velocity of the aircraft.

The book where I read it says that "The main function of the fuel that is carried with the plane is to give the ejected gases a high speed with respect to the plane, and most of the moving mass is supplied by the air" but I really don't understood it, I mean, I can't visualize it. I would to know what that ##\mu_{air}(v_{0}-v)## physically means. I thought the change of momentum was due only by the fuel burnt.
 
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##v_{0}## would be the velocity of the air as it enters the engine, not the velocity of the air as it passes through the engine. The difference between ##v_{0}## and ##v## would be the change in velocity of air resulting from its passing through the engine. Multiply by ##\mu_{air}## and you have the rate at which [rearward] momentum is being imparted to the air.
 
duarthiago said:
I thought the change of momentum was due only by the fuel burnt.
Energy comes from the reaction. Momentum goes mostly to the air.
 
A.T. said:
Energy comes from the reaction. Momentum goes mostly to the air.
Unlike a rocket engine that has to provide the chemical power and all the propellant mass.
 
jbriggs444 said:
##v_{0}## would be the velocity of the air as it enters the engine, not the velocity of the air as it passes through the engine. The difference between ##v_{0}## and ##v## would be the change in velocity of air resulting from its passing through the engine. Multiply by ##\mu_{air}## and you have the rate at which [rearward] momentum is being imparted to the air.
I don't know about ##v_{0}##, the book seems quite clear about it be the velocity of the ejected material, although what you said fits with the diagram that I have here, with ##v## being the velocity of the air entering the engine. So what is happening is that the change of velocity of air which passes through the engine (and that change is possible thanks to the energy provided by the burnt) and the loss of fuel mass escaping with the same velocity of the air are the factors that produce the change of momentum of the aircraft?
 
duarthiago said:
I don't know about ##v_{0}##, the book seems quite clear about it be the velocity of the ejected material, although what you said fits with the diagram that I have here, with ##v## being the velocity of the air entering the engine. So what is happening is that the change of velocity of air which passes through the engine (and that change is possible thanks to the energy provided by the burnt) and the loss of fuel mass escaping with the same velocity of the air are the factors that produce the change of momentum of the aircraft?

You are correct. I had reversed ##v_{0}## and ##v##.
 
Very well! Thank you everyone.
 
sophiecentaur said:
Unlike a rocket engine that has to provide the chemical power and all the propellant mass.
Yes, the other extreme is a piston engine with a propeller, where basically all the momentum is going to the air. Jet engines are in between those two extremes.
 

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