Calculate Jet Engine Net Thrust (F(N))

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    Engine Net Thrust
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of net thrust for a jet engine, focusing on the equations that describe the relationship between mass flow rates, velocities, and thrust. Participants explore the derivation of these equations and the assumptions involved in their application, touching on both theoretical and practical aspects of jet engine performance.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an equation for net thrust, F(N) = m dot (air) + m dot (j) V(j) - m dot (air) V, and asks for clarification on its derivation.
  • Another participant suggests a modification to the equation, proposing that it should include the sum of mass flow rates multiplied by final velocity.
  • A different participant questions the application of F=ma, suggesting an alternative formulation that incorporates the change in velocity.
  • One participant cites a textbook definition of gross thrust and net thrust, introducing the concept of drag and its effect on net thrust calculations.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of considering momentum changes by suggesting a control volume approach to analyze the forces acting on the engine.
  • A later reply clarifies that the initial velocities of fuel and air differ, which affects the thrust calculation, and provides a detailed breakdown of the force equation based on mass flow rates and velocities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct formulation of the thrust equations, with no consensus reached on a single equation or approach. There are multiple competing perspectives regarding the treatment of initial velocities and the inclusion of drag effects.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that assumptions about average acceleration and the treatment of fuel and air velocities may influence the derived equations. The discussion highlights the complexity of thrust calculations and the potential for varying interpretations based on different theoretical frameworks.

v_pino
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I was given some notes on aircraft performance that states the equation for finding the net thrust of a jet engine.

----------------------------------------------------
It states (words in brackets are subscripts):

F(N) = m dot (air) + m dot (j) V(j) - m dot (air) V

F(N) = net thrust
m dot (air) = inlet mass flow
m dot (j) = fuel mass flow
V(j) = final velocity
V = initial velocity
-----------------------------------------------------

How is this equation obtained?

I know that Force = change in momentum / change in time
 
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v_pino said:
F(N) = m dot (air) + m dot (j) V(j) - m dot (air) V
I think this should be:

F(N) = (m dot (air) + m dot (j)) V(j) - m dot (air) V

This is obtained as follows (assumes average accelartion, ..., you'd really need to take the integral sum of all the affected components):

force = mass x acceleration = mass x (Vout-Vin)/(unit time) = (mass/(unit time)) x (Vout - Vin)
 
Hi Jeff,

If I use F=ma, should I not get this:

( m dot (air) + m dot (j) ) ( V (j) - V )

thanks
 
This is the way the formula is written in my book;
Gross Thrust (Static) F (gross) = m dot (V2-V1)
V2-V1 Final velocity – initial velocity.
F (net) = F (gross) – F (Drag)
F (Drag) is the ram drag or inlet momentum drag caused by forward speed effect. If engine is not moving forward F (net) = F (gross).
Adding fuel: F (net) = m dot (V2-V1) + m dot fuel V (f)
Note: fuel inlet velocity will be same as engine so no initial velocity. Some formulas do not include fuel flow effects because the effects of air leakage are approximately the same as fuel flow effects.

The fuel is added to mass air flow – if used.

Most nozzles are chocked and there is a formula for that I can give you if you are interested.
 
It's simple...draw a control volume around an engine. The net force is the sum of all of the outgoing momentum minus the incoming momentum.
 
v_pino said:
If I use F=ma, should I not get this:
( m dot (air) + m dot (j) ) ( V (j) - V )
Not quite, the initial fuel velocity is different than the initial air velocity. Using the plane as a frame of reference, the initial fuel velocity is zero:

Jeff Reid said:
force = mass x acceleration = mass x (Vout-Vin)/(unit time) = (mass/(unit time)) x (Vout - Vin)

F = mass x acceleration
F = (mass (air))(Vout - Vin)/(unit time) + (mass fuel (j))(Vout - 0)/(unit time)
let m dot = mass / (unit time)
F = ( m dot (air) ) ( Vout - Vin) + ( m dot (fuel) ) ( Vout - 0)
 

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