Controlled experiment with time.

[Lost in Space]

You still haven't explained what you mean by this.

If an instant of time is separated by time dilation, how can it be verified as the same instant? Surely an instant can only be compared and verified by synchronous clocks running in the same time frame? Isn't this why there has to be adjustments made in communication satellites etc for even tiny relativistic effects? An instant of time has zero duration or length.

 

[Dale]

If an instant of time is separated by time dilation

How can an instant become separated by time dilation?

Time dilation is something that happens to physical clocks, an instant is something that is defined by a mathematical coordinate system. A particular accurate physical clock may or may not agree with a given valid coordinate system, but that doesn't impact the operation of the physical clock one bit and it doesn't cause the mathematical coordinate system to become "separated" in any way.

I don't even have any idea how you could apply the word "separated" to the concept of an "instant". This is what is confusing me.

 

[Dale]

For an entanglement experiment, an ensemble of entangled particles are generated and separated. Whether it is at a high rate of speed or not is irrelevant. Then each set of particles are measured and two completely random sets of data are obtained. Whether some nearby clock reads the same time as any other clock is irrelevant. Then the sets of data are brought together and compared to find a perfect negative correlation.

 

[Lost in Space]

An instant of time cannot be separated by time dilation. However, observers can be separated by time dilation. If one observer is in a separate time frame which has been caused by time dilation, his measurement of time is different to that of the other observer. Each measures his own time with his own clock. Each observer sees time moving normally in their own respective time frame. But relatively speaking the clocks are running at different rates. Therefore, the instant at which a change is caused in the state of the particles will, for each observer, be at a different time relative to the other.

If one observer is further forward in time relative to the other, he cannot compare his set of data with the other whilst occupying this different time frame. When he makes his measurement it is at a different time and at a different rate of time relative to the other. And if the opposite case is taken and the other observer makes his measurement it is going to be behind the other's time, comparatively speaking.

Ergo, both observers would have to know each other's clock to be able to compensate for the time difference between them and to know when the 'instant' of change happened for each, when recording any change in state and on later making a comparison, and this could only be done at all having first regained synchronisation in the same time frame.

 

[Dale]

If one observer is in a separate time frame which has been caused by time dilation, his measurement of time is different to that of the other observer. Each measures his own time with his own clock. Each observer sees time moving normally in their own respective time frame. But relatively speaking the clocks are running at different rates.

True, but as I already said above, completely irrelevant to an entanglement experiment. Before comparison the individual ensembles will be found to be completely random regardless of any time dilation, and after comparison the ensembles will be found to be perfectly correlated regardless of any time dilation. The time dilation is irrelevant. It makes no difference to the individual measurements nor to the comparison between measurements.

If you wish to discuss something new then I would be glad to do so, but I am done with repeating this stale discussion.

 

[Quickless]

The OP seems to be alluding to The Faster Than The Speed of Time experiments of Gene Denler and Fred Denef.

 

[Lost in Space]

True, but as I already said above, completely irrelevant to an entanglement experiment. Before comparison the individual ensembles will be found to be completely random regardless of any time dilation, and after comparison the ensembles will be found to be perfectly correlated regardless of any time dilation. The time dilation is irrelevant. It makes no difference to the individual measurements nor to the comparison between measurements.

If you wish to discuss something new then I would be glad to do so, but I am done with repeating this stale discussion.

I have a problem in accepting that with time dilation the instant of time for both particles is simultaneous and is therefore instantaneous. I don't seem to be getting this point across so I apologise for this.

For example, if changes in states are instituted at 1 second intervals and then time dilation takes effect, those intervals will become distorted in comparison to each other so any change of state in the faster time frame cannot be happening instantaneously in the other as the difference between the faster time frame and the slower time frame means that what is happening in the faster time frame cannot have happened yet in the slower time frame.