Converting QNH to height knowing QFE

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conversion of QNH (the altimeter setting) to altitude using QFE (the barometric pressure at the observer's location). Participants explore the relationship between these pressures and how to calculate altitude based on them, considering various equations and assumptions related to atmospheric pressure.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants clarify that QFE is the barometric pressure at the observer's altitude, while QNH is the pressure at the airport.
  • One participant suggests calculating altitude by subtracting QFE from QNH and using the formula h = (QNH - QFE) / ρ, where ρ is the density of air.
  • Another participant raises the question of whether the density (ρ) should be considered constant in these calculations.
  • Variations in atmospheric density are noted, with one participant mentioning empirical equations for calculating pressure from altitude.
  • There is a suggestion to use a specific equation for atmospheric pressure that can be applied up to 10 kilometers with a certain accuracy.
  • Participants discuss the possibility of substituting QNH into a simplified pressure equation and the implications of changing units from inches of Hg to hPa or kPa.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of performing calculations in the given units before converting to the required pressure units.
  • Another participant states that knowing one barometric pressure is sufficient to calculate altitude, referencing mean sea level pressure.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of using a standard sea level pressure of 101.325 kPa, with a participant explaining how airports derive QNH from local pressure readings.
  • A formula is provided for calculating height based on pressure in inches of Hg, with a note that the resulting height should be in meters.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the calculations and equations involved, with no clear consensus on the best approach or the assumptions regarding density and pressure units. Multiple competing views remain regarding the methods for converting QNH to altitude using QFE.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about air density being constant, the dependency on specific equations for accuracy, and the potential variability of sea level pressure in different locations.

itsjustme
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Say i have an acurate barometer that in this case reads QFE, is there any way that if i called up an airport's ATIS service and got the QNH (Altimiter setting) be able to somehow work out the altitude of where i a m standing ASL. Thx.
 
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I take it that QFE is the barometric pressure at the airplane's altitude and QNH is the barometric pressure at the airport. What you could do is subtract the QNH-QFE (the airports pressure should be greater than the airplanes) and then calculate the height of a cylinder of air that will give that pressure: if [itex]\rho[/itex] is the weight of air per cubic meter, h is the height of a one meter by one meter column of air, then its total weight would be [itex]\rho[/itex]h and so the pressure on the bottom (divide by the area on the bottom which is 1) would be [itex]\rho[/tex]h also. h= (QNH- QFE)/[itex]\rho[/itex] in meters.[/itex]
 
yeah, you kind of got the picture, is p suposted to be a constant?
 
Density variations should be considered in these calculations. There are some empirical equations to calculate the atmospheric pressure from altitude and vice versa.

The simplest equation is P = 29.92 - 0.001H, where P is atmospheric pressure at the given altitude in inches of Hg and H is altitude in ft.

An equation(perhaps curve fitting the observed data) which can be used upto 10 kilometers upto a 3% accuracy is

P = [(44331.5 - H)/4946.624]^(1/0.190263), P is ambient pressure at the altitude in Pascals and H is altitude in kilometers.
 
The simplest equation is P = 29.92 - 0.001H, where P is atmospheric pressure at the given altitude in inches of Hg and H is altitude in ft.

Hmm... because QNH is the pressure at sea level can i change that 29.92 into the QNH reported and work from there? if i changed the 29.92 from "Hg to Hpa or Kpa i take it that the -0.001H would also change, if it does can someone tell me what it will change to. Thx.
 
Better thing is to do the calculation with the given units and then finally converting "Hg to the required pressure units.

I strongly recommend you to use the second equation.
 
In the second equation, where does the QNH (other pressure) come in?
 
You need not have to know two pressures to calculate barometric pressure when you know the altitude and vice versa. Just plug in the barometric pressure(P) of the area where you stand and you will know H. The reference point is mean sea level with a barometric pressure of 101.325 kPa and 0 km altitude.
 
What if the pressure at sea level is not 101.3Kpa? The way the airports do it is they take a reading of the pressure at sea level make it the QNH, then if you set that pressure on a subscale in the altimeter you get an acurate reading of the altitude.
 
  • #10
quark gave very good formula in post #230. However H is not (km) but (m)

from where (P in hp) we get height in feet H' =((44331.5-4946.624 x (P x 100)^0.190263)/0.3048

Itsjustme should have no problem with QNH.
First calcul H' for certain P in hp, then subtract from it next H' that you get from same formula where P=QNH.
This H' will be + or - according to QNH high or low.
 

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