Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around the proof and derivation of the Coriolis force formula, particularly in the context of rotating reference frames. Participants explore both 2D and 3D perspectives of the Coriolis effect, seeking a rigorous mathematical foundation for the formula.
Discussion Character
- Exploratory
- Technical explanation
- Debate/contested
- Mathematical reasoning
Main Points Raised
- One participant presents the Coriolis force formula as -2m\vec{}\omegax\vec{}v and requests a careful proof and diagram.
- Another participant suggests starting with the 2D Coriolis effect and mentions the importance of understanding polar coordinates and time-dependent unit vectors.
- A different participant expresses interest in the 3D condition of the Coriolis force and seeks a critical proof from both mathematical and physical perspectives.
- One participant questions the need for a "critical proof," suggesting that changing coordinate systems leads to the emergence of pseudo forces, including the Coriolis force.
- Another participant interprets the request as seeking a derivation of the equation rather than a formal proof.
- A participant argues that proving the change of coordinate systems from xyz to rho, theta, phi is sufficient, implying that the Coriolis effect follows from this proof.
- One participant explains that the Coriolis force is a pseudo force arising from expressing Newton's second law in a rotating frame and provides an operator form of the time derivative transformation between inertial and rotating frames.
- This participant also outlines the relationship between the second time derivative of the position vector in inertial and rotating frames, detailing how fictitious forces, including the Coriolis force, arise in this context.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express differing views on what constitutes a satisfactory proof or derivation of the Coriolis force. There is no consensus on the necessity or form of a "critical proof," and multiple perspectives on the mathematical treatment of the Coriolis effect are presented.
Contextual Notes
Some participants highlight the complexity of transitioning between coordinate systems and the implications for understanding the Coriolis force. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with mathematical proofs and the underlying physics of rotating reference frames.