Could an operator act on a bra vector?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of operators on bra vectors within the context of quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on the operator \( a^\dagger \) and its effects on coherent states represented by \( | \alpha \rangle \) and \( \langle \alpha | \). Participants explore the implications of the operator's action and the mathematical relationships involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the equivalence of expressions involving the operator \( a^\dagger \) and question the redundancy of the bra vector \( \langle \alpha | \). There are attempts to utilize the completeness relation and expand the coherent state representation, while some express confusion regarding the differentiation of complex variables.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various participants offering insights and suggestions for approaching the problem. Some guidance has been provided regarding the use of matrix elements and the implications of differentiating complex conjugates, but no consensus has been reached on the best method to proceed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenge of differentiating non-analytic functions and the implications this has on their calculations. The complexity of the problem is acknowledged, particularly in relation to the properties of the operator and the nature of the variables involved.

Haorong Wu
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Homework Statement
Show that
##a^{\dagger} \left | \alpha \right > \left < \alpha \right | = \left ( \alpha ^{*} + \frac {\partial} {\partial \alpha} \right ) \left | \alpha \right > \left < \alpha \right |##
Relevant Equations
##\left | \alpha \right >## is a coherent state, and ##a\left | \alpha \right >=\alpha \left | \alpha \right >##.
Also ##\left | \alpha \right > = e^{- \left | \alpha \right | ^2 /2} \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac {\alpha ^n} {\sqrt{n!}} \left | n \right >##
I am confused about the problem. I thought operators do not act on bra vectors, and the problem is equivalent to
##a^{\dagger} \left | \alpha \right > = \left ( \alpha ^{*} + \frac {\partial} {\partial \alpha} \right ) \left | \alpha \right > ##. Then, strangely, ##\left < \alpha \right |## is redundant. So I think, ##\left < \alpha \right |## is included because the operator ##a^\dagger## has some effects on it.

On the other hand, I could not solve the problem. I tried to insert the completeness ralation so that
##a^{\dagger} \left | \alpha \right > \left < \alpha \right | =\frac 1 {\pi} \int d^2 \alpha ^{'} a^{\dagger} \left | \alpha^{'} \right > \left < \alpha^{'} \right |\left | \alpha \right > \left < \alpha \right | ##,
and tried to expand ##\left | \alpha \right > = e^{- \left | \alpha \right | ^2 /2} \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac {\alpha ^n} {\sqrt{n!}} \left | n \right >##.

But neither method can give any terms including ## \frac {\partial} {\partial \alpha}##

Meanwhile, I am not sure how to do partial differential with ##\alpha## which is a complex number.

By the way, what is the meaning of ##\Box ^ 2## in ##\Box ^2 E = - \mu _0 P##?

Thanks!
 
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Haorong Wu said:
and the problem is equivalent to
a†|α⟩=(α∗+∂∂α)|α⟩.
I think so. Did you try calculating
\frac{\partial}{\partial \alpha} [e^{-\alpha\alpha^*/2}\alpha^n]\frac{|n&gt;}{\sqrt{n!}}?
 
Haorong Wu said:
I thought operators do not act on bra vectors,
Well, operators can act on bra vectors from the right, but I don't think this is what you meant.

Haorong Wu said:
and the problem is equivalent to
##a^{\dagger} \left | \alpha \right > = \left ( \alpha ^{*} + \frac {\partial} {\partial \alpha} \right ) \left | \alpha \right > ##. Then, strangely, ##\left < \alpha \right |## is redundant. So I think, ##\left < \alpha \right |## is included because the operator ##a^\dagger## has some effects on it.
It is equivalent. The bra is "passive" here. My guess is that this relation will be useful later.

Haorong Wu said:
I tried to insert the completeness ralation so that
##a^{\dagger} \left | \alpha \right > \left < \alpha \right | =\frac 1 {\pi} \int d^2 \alpha ^{'} a^{\dagger} \left | \alpha^{'} \right > \left < \alpha^{'} \right |\left | \alpha \right > \left < \alpha \right | ##,
This is not useful here. The point of using the completeness relation is when you have an expression of the type ##\hat{A} | \psi \rangle## which you might be able to solve by replacing the ##| \psi \rangle## with eigenkets of ##\hat{A}##, for which you know how the operator acts on them.

Haorong Wu said:
and tried to expand ##\left | \alpha \right > = e^{- \left | \alpha \right | ^2 /2} \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac {\alpha ^n} {\sqrt{n!}} \left | n \right >##.
This is the right approach. Of course, the ## \frac {\partial} {\partial \alpha}## won't appear by itself, but it is useful to consider how that derivative applies to ##e^{c \alpha}##.

But neither method can give any terms including ## \frac {\partial} {\partial \alpha}##

Haorong Wu said:
Meanwhile, I am not sure how to do partial differential with ##\alpha## which is a complex number.
What is ## \frac {\partial} {\partial x}## of ##f(x) = x^n##?

Haorong Wu said:
By the way, what is the meaning of ##\Box ^ 2## in ##\Box ^2 E = - \mu _0 P##?
It is the d'Alembertian.
 
anuttarasammyak said:
I think so. Did you try calculating
\frac{\partial}{\partial \alpha} [e^{-\alpha\alpha^*/2}\alpha^n]\frac{|n&gt;}{\sqrt{n!}}?

Hi, @anuttarasammyak . I have tried it. I was stuck in calculating the partial derivative ##\frac {\partial \alpha ^*} {\partial \alpha}##.
Because ##\alpha ^ *## is not analytic, then the derivative ##\frac {d \alpha ^*} {d \alpha}## does not exist. I do not know how to deal with this situation.
 
Many thanks, @DrClaude .

I guess that, operator ##a^\dagger## may not act on the bra, but the partial do act on it. I will try it hard.

Also, since ##\alpha ^ *## is not analytic, its derivative does not exist, so I do not know how to proceed next. Should I ignore it?
 
Haorong Wu said:
I was stuck in calculating the partial derivative ∂α∗∂α.
Thanks. So the answer suggests us
\frac{\partial}{\partial \alpha}|\alpha&gt;&lt;\alpha|=[\frac{\partial}{\partial \alpha}|\alpha&gt;]&lt;\alpha|\ +\ |\alpha&gt;[\frac{\partial}{\partial \alpha}&lt;\alpha|], partial derivative works not on ket only but on whole operator, and
\frac{\partial}{\partial \alpha}(\alpha \alpha^*)=\alpha^*
,alpha* is independent parameter as for partial derivative of alpha.
 
Last edited:
Haorong Wu said:
I guess that, operator ##a^\dagger## may not act on the bra, but the partial do act on it.

Yes, I think so.

I do not have time to look at this today (I am in the middle of a bunch of work work), but here is a suggestion (which may or may not be helpful). You are trying to prove an equation involving operators, and one way to do this is to show that when both sides operate on an arbitrary ket, they give the same result. Since they form basis, it is sufficient to operate on an arbitrary energy eigenket ##\left| m \right>##. This should get rid of one of the sums.

Again, I have no idea if this is useful.
 
After going back to my real work, this was still in the back of my mind. Maybe take this idea one step further and calculate matrix elements (with respect to an energy eigenbasis) of both operators by sandwiching the operators on both sides of the desired equation between the bra ##\left< n \right|## and the ket ##\left| m \right>##. Let ##a^\dagger## operate on the bra ##\left< n \right|##.
 
Haorong Wu said:
Because α∗ is not analytic, then the derivative dα∗dα does not exist.

DrClaude said:
What is ∂∂x of f(x)=xn?

Say ##f(z)=z^*##, making conjugate complex,
f(z) does not satisfies Cauchy-Riemann relation, i.e.
z=x+iy,f(z)=x-iy
\frac{\partial x}{\partial x} \neq \frac{\partial (-y)}{\partial y}
So it does not differentiable.

Say
f&#039;(z)=\lim_{\zeta \rightarrow 0}\frac{z^*+\zeta^*-z^*}{\zeta}=\lim_{\zeta \rightarrow 0}e^{-i \ arg(\zeta)}
It does not depend on value of z and is a phase factor of any chosen infinitesimal approach. If we can take "averaged" phase factor
&lt;e^{-i \ arg(\zeta)}&gt;=0 then
f&#039;(z)=\frac{dz^*}{dz}=0
Such an extended meaning of partial differentiation makes sense?

I should appreciate it if someone who knows mathematics better correct/comment on it.
 
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Haorong Wu said:
Homework Statement:: Show that
##a^{\dagger} \left | \alpha \right > \left < \alpha \right | = \left ( \alpha ^{*} + \frac {\partial} {\partial \alpha} \right ) \left | \alpha \right > \left < \alpha \right |##
George Jones said:
After going back to my real work, this was still in the back of my mind. Maybe take this idea one step further and calculate matrix elements (with respect to an energy eigenbasis) of both operators by sandwiching the operators on both sides of the desired equation between the bra ##\left< n \right|## and the ket ##\left| m \right>##. Let ##a^\dagger## operate on the bra ##\left< n \right|##.

Now I've had a chance to calculate! This works.
 

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