Coulomb's Law from vector identities

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving Coulomb's Law and the principle of superposition from vector identities, particularly in the context of electric fields. Participants explore the implications of vector calculus identities, specifically the curl and divergence of electric fields, and the conditions under which these lead to a unique solution for the electric field.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that Coulomb's Law and superposition imply the divergence and curl of the electric field, and seeks to derive Coulomb's Law from these vector identities.
  • Another participant argues that while the electric field is expected to be radially symmetric, the condition of curl E=0 is necessary to address nonuniqueness in solutions, allowing for the expression of the electric field in terms of the electrostatic potential.
  • A participant questions whether Gauss' Law guarantees that the force tends to zero at infinity, prompting a discussion about boundary conditions and their role in ensuring uniqueness of the electric field solution.
  • It is noted that a constant electric field can have zero flux through a closed surface without tending to zero at infinity, highlighting the importance of boundary conditions in determining the behavior of electric fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and implications of boundary conditions in relation to Gauss' Law and the uniqueness of electric field solutions. There is no consensus on whether Gauss' Law alone guarantees that the electric field tends to zero at infinity.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to assumptions about the symmetry of the electric field and the implications of boundary conditions, which remain unresolved.

ralqs
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I can show that Coulomb's Law + superposition implies [itex]\nabla \cdot \mathcal {E} = \frac{\rho}{\epsilon_0}[/itex] and [itex]\nabla \times \mathcal{E} = \mathbf{0}[/itex]. I want to go the other way and derive Coulomb's law and superposition from the vector identities. I know that Gauss' Law implies Coulomb's law if we assume that the electric field is radial and symmetric. Can these assumptions be justified from [itex]\nabla \times \mathcal{E} = \mathbf{0}[/itex]? Thanks.
 
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We can expect the field to be radially symmetric on purely physical grounds, in which case curl E=0 seems a bit redundant.

But from a mathematical point of view, without curl E=0 there's a massive problem of nonuniqueness to the solutions: we can add an extra arbitrary field as long as it has zero divergence, so there are loads of possible solutions (though only one spherically symmetric).

Including curl E=0 mostly solves this problem: it means you can write E=-grad phi, where phi is the electrostatic potential. But there is still a nonuniqueness issue, because you can add to phi any solution of Laplace's equation. For example, we could have an extra constant magnetic field in the x-direction.

There's one more ingredient needed: the boundary conditions. If we specify that we want the field to tend to zero as we go to infinity, we get uniqueness. Only then can we guarantee that the field will be radially symmetric.
 
henry_m said:
There's one more ingredient needed: the boundary conditions. If we specify that we want the field to tend to zero as we go to infinity, we get uniqueness. Only then can we guarantee that the field will be radially symmetric.
Are you sure? Doesn't Gauss' Law guarantee that the force tends to zero as we tend to infinity?

But anyways, I managed to prove what I wanted. Thanks!
 
ralqs said:
Are you sure? Doesn't Gauss' Law guarantee that the force tends to zero as we tend to infinity?

Unfortunately not: for example, a constant electric field will have zero flux through any closed surface, but it certainly doesn't disappear at infinity. And there are infinitely many more nontrivial examples: pick any solution to Laplace's equation and take its gradient.

These can all be ruled out usually on physical grounds (unless you're interested, for example, in a situation where there is an externally applied field), which mathematically correspond to boundary conditions.
 

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