Covariant and contravariant analysis

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the transformation properties of covariant and contravariant vectors, specifically focusing on the formulas for basis vectors under coordinate transformations. Participants express confusion regarding the behavior of partial derivatives in these transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants attempt to prove the transformation formulas for basis vectors and question the reasoning behind the "flip" in partial derivatives. Some provide hints related to coordinate bases and the chain rule for partial derivatives, while others discuss definitions and properties of covariant and contravariant indices.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different definitions and properties related to the transformation of basis vectors. Some have offered hints and insights, but there is no explicit consensus on the understanding of the dual basis case.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of vector transformations in the context of differential geometry, with specific reference to the definitions and conventions used in the literature. There is mention of potential confusion regarding the terminology of covariant and contravariant indices.

ehrenfest
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Homework Statement


Can someone explain/help me prove the formulas
\vec{e_a}' = \frac{ \partial{x^b}}{\partial x'^a} \vec{e_b}

\vec{e^a}' = \frac{ \partial{x'^a}}{\partial x^b} \vec{e^b}

I do not understand why the partial derivative flip?

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution

 
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I'll give you 2 hints: 1. What is a coordinate basis ? 2. What is the chain rule for partial derivatives ?
 
ehrenfest said:

Homework Statement


Can someone explain/help me prove the formulas
\vec{e_a}' = \frac{ \partial{x^b}}{\partial x'^a} \vec{e_b}

\vec{e^a}' = \frac{ \partial{x'^a}}{\partial x^b} \vec{e^b}

I do not understand why the partial derivative flip?

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


Basically, this is essentially a definition of what we mean by covariant and contravariant indices (sometimes people start from the components of a covariant or contravariant vector instead of the basis vectors in which case the transformations are the opposite of the ones given here)
 
My book defines the coordinate basis vector at a point P as follows:

\vec{e}_a = lim_{\delta x^a \to 0} \frac{ \delta \vec{s}}{\delta x^a}

where delta s is the infinitesimal vector displacement between P and a nearby point Q whose coordinate separation from P is delta x^a.

I think you must be referring to perhaps a more useful definition!
 
ehrenfest said:

Homework Statement


Can someone explain/help me prove the formulas
\vec{e_a}' = \frac{ \partial{x^b}}{\partial x'^a} \vec{e_b}

\vec{e^a}' = \frac{ \partial{x'^a}}{\partial x^b} \vec{e^b}

I do not understand why the partial derivative flip?

A vector V is a geometrical object, that can be written in a coordinate basis as
V=v^{a}e_{a}
where e_{a} are basis vectors (I'm giving them a lower index). The v^{a} are the coefficient functions of the vector. As a geometrical object, V cannot care about what coordinate basis you have chosen, so under changes of bases it must be left unchanged. So if the coefficient functions transform as
v^{a}(x')=\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x'^{b}}v^{b}(x) the basis vectors must transform as
e_{a}(x')=\frac{\partial x'^{c}}{\partial x^{a}}e_{c}(x)
since
\frac{\partial x'^{c}}{\partial x^{a}}\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x'^{b}}=\delta^{c}_{b}
implies that
V=v^{a}(x')e_{a}(x')=v^{b}(x)e_{b}(x)=V.

Similar arguments go for co-vectors W=w_{a}e^{a}
where e^{a} are a basis of co-vectors (also known as 1-forms) contracted with their coefficient functions. The location of the index on all these objects determines the form of the transformation. Note: There is confusion in the literature regarding the names covariant and contravariant as applies to upper vs. lower index objects (e.g. there are generally opposite naming conventions between maths and physics).
 
Last edited:
OK. I see why the basis case holds. But for the dual basis case, we then need that:

\frac{\partial x_a}{\partial x'_b} = \frac{\partial x'^b}{\partial x^a}

which is what I do not understand?
 

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