Covariant Derivative: Understanding Motivation Quickly

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the motivation and understanding of the covariant derivative in the context of differential geometry and its relationship to the elementary differential operator. Participants explore how these concepts relate to changes in vectors and tensors with respect to coordinate systems and space-time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the elementary differential operator must describe a change with respect to space-time, questioning how this conclusion is drawn.
  • Another participant challenges the terminology of "elementary differential operator" and questions the reasoning behind the assertion that it describes change with respect to space-time.
  • A participant suggests that the elementary partial derivative relates to changes with respect to the coordinate system, while the covariant derivative relates to changes with respect to space-time.
  • Further clarification is provided that the partial derivative is not a valid tensor operation and can only act on components of vector or tensor fields, while the covariant derivative is a valid tensor operator that describes how a vector changes locally along a direction defined by a connection.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of the elementary differential operator and covariant derivative, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the definitions used and the assumptions about the relationships between the operators discussed, which remain unresolved.

binbagsss
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As we can not meaningfully compare a vector at 2 points acted upon by this operator , because it does not take into account the change due to the coordinate system constantly changing, I conclude that the elementary differential operator must describe a change with respect to space-time,

How do we know that the elementary differential operator does this, instead of describing a change wrt a coordinate system?

Thanks in advance.
 
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binbagsss said:
As we can not meaningfully compare a vector at 2 points acted upon by this operator , because it does not take into account the change due to the coordinate system constantly changing, I conclude that the elementary differential operator must describe a change with respect to space-time,

What do you mean by "elementary differential operator"? I do not think this is standard terminology. Also, how do you draw this conclusion? I don't see how "must describe a change with respect to space-time" follows from "can not compare a vector at 2 points acted upon by this operator". In general, there is no way to compare a vector at 2 different points on a manifold without defining either a connection plus a path, or a congruence.
 
oh, sorry,it's the other way around. so the elementary partial derivative gives the change with respect to coordinate system, and the aim of the covariant derivative is to give the change with respect to space-time?
 
binbagsss said:
oh, sorry,it's the other way around. so the elementary partial derivative gives the change with respect to coordinate system, and the aim of the covariant derivative is to give the change with respect to space-time?

This is a very imprecise way of looking at things, but is roughly true. A simple partial derivative with respect to some coordinate system ##\partial_\mu## is not a valid tensor operation, and as such can not act on vector fields or tensor fields. What they can do is act on the components, in that coordinate system, of vector/tensor fields. So ##\partial_\mu V^\nu## gives you the partial derivative, in the ##\mu## direction of the ##\nu## component of the vector ##V^a## in the implicitly defined coordinate system. The ##n^2## quantities ##\partial_\mu V^\nu## do not define the components of a rank 2 tensor in any coordinate system. The co variant derivative is a valid tensor operator, and so acts on the vector itself. The co variant derivative tells you how a vector changes locally, in some particular direction, with respect to the (metric compatible in GR) connection defined on the manifold. In other words, it tells you how a vector changes with respect to locally parallel transported (with parallel transport defined by the connection) vectors along any such direction.
 

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