Cryogenic Materials for Bladder

  • Thread starter Thread starter ccarleton
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Materials
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on identifying materials that maintain some elasticity at cryogenic temperatures, specifically around 20 Kelvin, for use in a bladder designed to hold liquid nitrogen in a bath of liquid hydrogen or helium under pressure. Participants explore various material options and their properties under extreme conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about materials that can retain elasticity at cryogenic temperatures for a bladder that could stretch or fold without cracking.
  • Another suggests a stainless steel bellows tube as a potential solution and asks about the required capacity.
  • A later post indicates that the bladder should ideally collapse completely and questions the viability of silicon, plastic, or rubber compounds at such low temperatures.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the flexibility of plastics or rubber at 20K, suggesting that few materials would perform adequately.
  • Polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon) is mentioned as retaining some plasticity at 20K.
  • Concerns are raised about nitrogen solidifying at very low temperatures, and the challenges of using materials like Kapton film are discussed, including its performance when thin and the risk of developing holes at fold points.
  • Experiments with various plastics, including nylon, are noted to have failed, emphasizing the need for materials that can withstand bending stresses.
  • Participants suggest that understanding the intended use of the bladder could provide better insights into material selection.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the suitability of various materials for cryogenic applications, with no consensus reached on a definitive solution. Some materials are proposed as potentially viable, while others are deemed unlikely to perform well under the specified conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include uncertainty regarding the performance of specific materials at cryogenic temperatures, the need for further clarification on the intended use of the bladder, and the potential for solidification of nitrogen and hydrogen at low temperatures affecting material choice.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to materials scientists, engineers working with cryogenic systems, and researchers exploring applications involving low-temperature environments.

ccarleton
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Would anybody know the following or be able to point me to a web resource?
Thanks

Do you know of any materials that retain some elasticity at cryogenic temperatures in the 20 degrees Kelvin range?

This would be for a bladder that would hold liquid nitrogen in a bath of liquid Hydrogen or helium under pressure. The bladder could either stretch or fold. So it does not necessarily need to stretch, just not crack while it was folded.
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
The only thing I can think of is a stainless steel bellows tube.
How much capacity/change in capacity do you need?
 
Ideally the bladder would need to collapse completely.

Could there be any type of Silicon, plastic or rubber compound that might work?
 
ccarleton said:
Could there be any type of Silicon, plastic or rubber compound that might work?
It's a bit lower than I have direct experience of, but I doubt there are any plastics/rubber that are that flexible at 20K.
 
Polytetrafluoroethylene retains some plasticity at 20k.
 
Nitrogen will solidify at -340 F (aprox) regardless of pressure, so in a bath of LH2, you have other issues. At liquid helium temperature, even hydrogen is a solid.

Teflon will get hard, though if it's thin enough (ie: a few micron) it might work.

I'd suggest trying Kapton film, especially the reinforced variety that has fibers interwoven. Don't know what the fibers are made of though. I've experimented with Kapton film by dunking in liquid nitrogen, and it holds up surprisingly well. If it krinkles up, it will develop holes at the points where 2 folds come together. The key to retaining flexibility with Kapton (and most materials in this circumstance) is to get them as thin as possible to minimize bending stresses.

I've also tried various plastics including nylon, all of which failed miserably.

If you can explain your intented use, it would help.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K