Curie point for ferromagnetic materials

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Curie point of ferromagnetic materials, particularly focusing on how temperature affects their magnetic properties. Participants explore the implications of the Curie temperature for practical applications, such as the potential for creating efficient motors using these materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks graphs illustrating the ferromagnetic properties of metals like iron and nickel as they approach the Curie temperature, noting the sharp transition between ferromagnetic and non-ferromagnetic states.
  • Another participant provides links to resources that depict the magnetization versus temperature for ferromagnetic materials, explaining the nature of the phase transition at the Curie point.
  • A participant questions the feasibility of creating a high-efficiency motor using ferromagnetic materials near their Curie temperature, suggesting that small temperature changes could drive a "Curie engine."
  • Further contributions mention that there are ferromagnetic materials with lower Curie temperatures, such as gadolinium, which could be utilized in such applications.
  • One participant humorously suggests acquiring gadolinium as a potential material for experimentation, noting its relatively low Curie point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various ideas regarding the properties of ferromagnetic materials and their applications, but there is no consensus on the practicality or efficiency of a "Curie engine." The discussion remains open with multiple viewpoints presented.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the efficiency and practicality of using ferromagnetic materials near their Curie temperature are not fully explored, and the discussion does not resolve the technical challenges associated with such applications.

Low-Q
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Hi,

I have searched the web for a graph that shows the ferromagnetic properties of a metal like iron or nickel as they warms up to the Curie temperature - when the metals becomes non-ferromagnetic. I cannot find any good images or graphs that shows this very clear. I have been told that the Curie point is very sharp, meaning that at temperatures slightly under or over the Curie temperature makes the metal ferromegnetic or not. Can someone please help to explain this to me?

Br.

Vidar
 
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There is a sketch of the magnetization versus temperature for a ferromagnetic material here:
http://www.irm.umn.edu/hg2m/hg2m_b/hg2m_b.html
Scroll down a little, to get to ferromagnetism.
An experimental image cuve for nickel is contained in this graph:
http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/68/268-004-A2511D3C.gif

The Curie point is "sharp" in the sense that is the point of a phase transition. It is somewhat similar to the melting point. Above it the material is liquid, below it it's solid.

Here it is the ferro- to para- magnetic phase transition. However this is a so called "second order" phase transition whereas the melting is "first order". It means (between other things) that the order parameter (magnetization) does not have a jump over the transition point. It goes to zero when temperature is increased towards Tc and remains zero on the high temperature side of the transition.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply.

Is it possible to make a relatively high efficient motor of ferromagnetic materials if the material is close to its Curier temperature so just small changes in temperature (which require "small" energy input) will make a "Curier engine" to work?
Say the engine is inside an insolated box where the temperature is possible to be kept high.

I am not talking about over unity, but another way to make an engine.

br.

Vidar
 
Low-Q said:
Thanks for the reply.

Is it possible to make a relatively high efficient motor of ferromagnetic materials if the material is close to its Curier temperature so just small changes in temperature (which require "small" energy input) will make a "Curier engine" to work?
Say the engine is inside an insolated box where the temperature is possible to be kept high.

I am not talking about over unity, but another way to make an engine.

br.

Vidar

The "high" temperature is not really a problem. There are ferromagnetic materials with low Curie temperature. Not very common I guess as the interest is in having it high enough to avoid demagnetization. Gadolinium is an example (TC less than 300 K).
Regarding the motor, I don't know, there are many things to consider.
 
Low-Q said:
Thanks for the reply.

Is it possible to make a relatively high efficient motor of ferromagnetic materials if the material is close to its Curier temperature so just small changes in temperature (which require "small" energy input) will make a "Curier engine" to work?
Say the engine is inside an insolated box where the temperature is possible to be kept high.

I am not talking about over unity, but another way to make an engine.

br.

Vidar

Get some Gadolinium metal at Ebay, it is relatively cheap (for it being a rare earth) and has its Curie point at about 20 deg. Celsius. Nice toy!
 

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