Current Loops and fundamental group

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the application of the Law of Biot and Savart and Ampere's Law in understanding the first de Rham cohomology of S3-embedded loops. It establishes that the induced magnetic field is the dual of a differential form that generates this cohomology. The conversation also explores the limitations of classical physics in interpreting the fundamental group of S3-embedded loops, suggesting that insights may be found in quantum physics or string theory. Additionally, the participants discuss extending these concepts to higher dimensions, proposing analogues of electric and magnetic fields for calculating de Rham cohomologies of S^n embedded submanifolds.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of de Rham cohomology
  • Familiarity with Ampere's Law and the Law of Biot and Savart
  • Knowledge of differential forms and integration in Euclidean spaces
  • Basic concepts in quantum physics and string theory
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the application of Stokes' theorem in differential geometry
  • Explore the relationship between electric fields and de Rham cohomology
  • Investigate higher-dimensional analogues of magnetic fields in physics
  • Study Topological Quantum Field Theories and their implications for fundamental groups
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Mathematicians, physicists, and researchers interested in advanced topics in topology, differential geometry, and quantum field theories, particularly those exploring the intersections of classical and quantum physics.

wofsy
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The Law of Biot and Savart Law tells us how to find a differential form that generates the first de Rham cohomology of S3- embedded loop. Run a steady current through the loop.

This form is just the dual of the induced magnetic field (using the Euclidean metric).

Ampere's Law tells us that the form is closed. In fact, integration of the form over small cycles that lie in a tube around the circuit and are orthogonal to the current is 1 - so the form is a generator of the first cohomology.

What physical phenomenon tells us the fundamental group of S3 - embedded loop?
 
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That's a clever question, but I'm not sure if there is an answer. The electric field (by itself) only tells us about the second de Rham cohomology, and the gravitational field would do the same.

From the classical physics I remember only the de Rham cohomolgy came up (when using Stokes' theorem and trying to construct potentials); I can't think of an interpretation of the fundamental group. You might have more luck in quantum physics or string theory.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Can you extend it another way? Can you find analogues of the electric and magnetic fields in higher dimensions to calculate de Rham cohomologies of S^n - embedded submanifold?
 
fantispug said:
That's a clever question, but I'm not sure if there is an answer. The electric field (by itself) only tells us about the second de Rham cohomology, and the gravitational field would do the same.

From the classical physics I remember only the de Rham cohomolgy came up (when using Stokes' theorem and trying to construct potentials); I can't think of an interpretation of the fundamental group. You might have more luck in quantum physics or string theory.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Can you extend it another way? Can you find analogues of the electric and magnetic fields in higher dimensions to calculate de Rham cohomologies of S^n - embedded submanifold?

Thanks for the reply and the problem. I haven't totally worked out the higher dimensional generalization of a magnetic field induced by a q dimensional current yet but felt like not ignoring your post. So here's an idea.

M is a smoothly embedded q dimensional oriented submanifold w/o boundary in Euclidean n-space.

For any point x not on M and any point m on M, the vector x-m and the volume element,w, of M determine an n-q-1-form at m that is perpendicular to the q+1 plane that (x-m) and w determine and has (q-1) volume equal to the length of x-m. Choose the form so that (x-m),w, and the form taken together give the positive orientation of R^n at m.

This form seems like a reasonable analogue of the cross product.

The form needs to be scaled before integration. After scaling, integrate this n-q-1 form over M to get an analogue of a magnetic field induced by a steady q dimensional "current" on M.

If the scaling is analgous to that used in the Law of Biot and Savart then for points very close to M the field should look like the volume element of the n-q-1 sphere that is perpendicular to the nearest tangent plane of M. Haven't yet worked out the formula.

Thanks again for this. I am learning a lot.

By the way, yesterday I sat in on a lecture on quantum computers. The speaker was a mathematician who is part of a research team at Microsoft. He spoke about things I don't even begin to understand but it was all about Topological Quantum Field Theories and involved braids and links in 3 space. He spoke of Jones polynomials, braid groups, and Chern-Simons theories. So that stuff may be a physical counterpart to the fundamental group of the complement of a circuit or of links. Do you know about this stuff?
 
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