Curved line shortest distance between two points?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the shortest distance between two points in curved spaces, particularly in the context of general relativity (GR) and geodesics. Participants explore the implications of curvature on distance and the reasoning behind Einstein's proposals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the idea that a curved line can represent a shorter distance than a straight line, using the analogy of walking across a soccer field versus around its track.
  • Others suggest that in curved spaces, such as those influenced by mass, the shortest path is not a straight line, referencing the bending of spacetime.
  • One participant points out that airlines use curved routes for intercontinental flights, implying that these routes are shorter and more economical.
  • There is a discussion about the concept of geodesics, with some participants noting that it was not originally introduced by Einstein, despite references to his work in popular science literature.
  • Another participant mentions the possibility that the concept of a curved line being shorter could relate to the pseudo-Euclidean line interval in Minkowski spacetime.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of Einstein's proposals or the concept of geodesics. There are competing views regarding the implications of curvature on distance and the origins of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about the nature of curvature and its effects on distance, which may not be universally accepted. The discussion also touches on different interpretations of popular science literature, which may lead to varying understandings of the concepts involved.

ChrisisC
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Can someone explain how this is possible? it makes no sense to me. You wouldn't walk along the track surrounding a soccer field if you wanted to get to the other end... you would walk straight across the grass to reach your destination. Why did Einstein propose this?
 
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ChrisisC said:
Can someone explain how this is possible? it makes no sense to me. You wouldn't walk along the track surrounding a soccer field if you wanted to get to the other end... you would walk straight across the grass to reach your destination. Why did Einstein propose this?
Imagine the field isn't flat, but 200 yards high. Would you still walk over the grass? This is basically what it is about in spaces with curvature: a giant heap in the middle. Or take the earth. There is no way directly through it. Masses bend spacetime and thus it has a curvature and the shortest way isn't a straight line anymore.
 
ChrisisC said:
Can someone explain how this is possible? it makes no sense to me.
Have you ever seen a map showing intercontinental airplane routes? Why do you think the airlines use curved routes if not because they are shorter and therefore save money.
 
Dale said:
Have you ever seen a map showing intercontinental airplane routes? Why do you think the airlines use curved routes if not because they are shorter and therefore save money.
Good idea! (black is the shortest way, grey the direct line - it shows at least the principle)

upload_2017-1-4_3-56-47.png
 
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ChrisisC said:
Why did Einstein propose this?
What exactly are you referring here? The concept of geodesics was not introduced by Einstein.
 
A.T. said:
What exactly are you referring here? The concept of geodesics was not introduced by Einstein.

In the book "Hyperspace" by Kaku, Kaku says that Einstein said a curved line is less distance than a straight line. I'm assuming Kaku said this because it refers to GR. I could be wrong.
 
ChrisisC said:
In the book "Hyperspace" by Kaku, Kaku says that Einstein said a curved line is less distance than a straight line. I'm assuming Kaku said this because it refers to GR. I could be wrong.
Could also mean the pseudo-Euclidean line interval in Minkowski space time.
 

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