Curved Tube For Constant Pressure Increase?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design of a curved tube intended to achieve a more constant pressure increase during compression. Participants explore theoretical implications, potential designs, and the underlying physics of pressure and volume relationships in gases and liquids.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that a curved tube could lead to a more constant pressure increase by reducing the amount of air compressed as the tube narrows.
  • Another participant questions the initial claim of exponential pressure increase, suggesting that for an isothermal system, pressure is inversely proportional to volume.
  • A later reply acknowledges the misuse of the term "exponential" and presents a theoretical framework for achieving linear pressure increase, while noting the impracticality of manufacturing such a design.
  • There is a suggestion to consider using water or oil for the piston in the proposed design.
  • One participant introduces the concept of a buoyant cylinder in liquid, which would present a linearly increasing force as depth increases, linking this to the design of the tube.
  • Concerns are raised about the containment of a liquid piston under increasing pressure and the effects of drag forces on the piston’s movement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the initial pressure claims and the feasibility of the proposed designs. There is no consensus on the effectiveness of the curved tube concept or the best approach to achieve a constant pressure increase.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the proposed designs, including the challenges of manufacturing a piston that adapts to changing cross-sectional areas and the practical considerations of using liquids as pistons.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those involved in fluid dynamics, mechanical engineering, or anyone exploring innovative designs for pressure systems.

person123
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My design concept stems from the fact that the pressure in a tube increases exponentially based on the length of the tube compressed. I would like to design a tube that increases pressure at a more constant rate. I would imagine that a tube curved inward toward the base would achieve this. As the air in the tube is being compressed by a greater distance, less air would be compressed since the size of the tube decreases. This would decrease the amount of pressure needed. However, I am not all sure if this would work, and I would be curious to hear your opinions on it.
 
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I don't understand . Draw some pictures .
 
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Also I am not sure where you are getting your exponential claim from. For an isothermal system, the pressure is inversely proportional to the volume.
 
boneh3ad said:
Also I am not sure where you are getting your exponential claim from. For an isothermal system, the pressure is inversely proportional to the volume.
True enough. Ignoring this misuse of the term "exponential", I've actually worked it out for the isothermal case.

Disclaimer:
the resulting shape is physically impossible to manufacture, so this all amounts to a purely theoretical exercise.

I'll just set things up, without working through to the final solution. Setting aside the issue of designing a piston that must change in size to match the changing cross-sectional area of the tube during the piston's stroke...

We want the pressure to increase linearly from its initial value P0 when the piston is at position x = 0, so:

P = P0 + ax, where a is a constant.

The volume V displaced by the piston, as a function of x, is

Vdisp = [Integral]A dx,
where A(x) is the cross-sectional area of the tube.

The volume V of gas in the tube is then the initial volume V0, minus the displaced volume Vdisp.

Setting PV = constant, you can then solve for the tube cross-sectional area A(x).
 
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Redbelly98 said:
Setting aside the issue of designing a piston that must change in size to match the changing cross-sectional area of the tube during the piston's stroke...

Use water or oil for the piston?
 
person123 said:
I would like to design a tube that increases pressure at a more constant rate.
A buoyant cylinder being pushed axially down into a liquid will present a force that rises linearly as the depth is increased. Changing the cross sectional area of the cylinder where it enters the liquid will change the rate of force increase.
 
CWatters said:
Use water or oil for the piston?
What can keep a liquid piston like that contained, so that the increasing pressure within the cylinder doesn't blow it completely away?

Baluncore said:
A buoyant cylinder being pushed axially down into a liquid will present a force that rises linearly as the depth is increased. Changing the cross sectional area of the cylinder where it enters the liquid will change the rate of force increase.
Ah, interesting idea. Provided that the piston does not move so fast that drag forces become appreciable. It would depend on the specific application, of course.
 
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