Curvilinear coordinates question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transformation from Cartesian to polar coordinates, specifically exploring whether it is possible to derive the polar coordinate formulas using only knowledge of rotation matrices in two-dimensional space, without prior knowledge of polar coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that starting from the family of linear transformations represented by rotation matrices, it may be possible to derive the polar coordinates formulas for r and θ.
  • Another participant suggests that the flow on the plane determined by the action of the rotation group integrates to polar coordinates.
  • A different participant expresses a desire for more formalization of the process, particularly regarding the initial step of considering the flow from the rotation group.
  • One participant explains that positive rotations generate a circle centered at the origin, and that the derivatives of these parameterized curves yield vectors tangent to the circle, which can then be used to find outward pointing orthogonal complements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to have differing levels of understanding and clarity regarding the process of deriving polar coordinates from rotation matrices. There is no consensus on the formalization of the initial steps, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the need for clarity in the initial steps of the proposed derivation and the assumptions involved in using rotation matrices to arrive at polar coordinates.

mnb96
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Hi,
if we consider a transformation of coordinates Cartesian\rightarrowPolar, it is straightforward to derive r = (x^2 + y^2)^{1/2} and \theta = atan2(y/x), because we actually know what our new coordinate system should be like.

Now let's pretend we have never seen polar coordinates, and we have no idea how to convert from cartesian to polar.
However, all we know is that we have the following family of linear transformations in \mathcal{R}^2,
(\begin{array}{ccc} cos\theta & -sin\theta \\ sin\theta & cos\theta \end{array})
which are actually rotation matrices acting on 2D vectors, and we would like to find a new frame of reference in which the parameter \theta becomes one coordinate.

Is it possible from this knowledge only, to arrive at the formulas above for r,\theta?
 
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the flow on the plane that the action of the rotation group determines (for positive angles) and its unit length orthogonal complement (outward pointing) integrate to polar coordinates.
 
Hi!
thanks for the answer. I actually had the same idea you wrote but only as a visual intuition. Could you elaborate more at least the formalization of the process (not necessarily all the steps).
It is not very clear to me the first step: considering the flow determined by the rotation group.
 
Starting at any point in the plane positive rotations map generates a circle centered at the origin in the plane. this circles ia a parameterized curve and its derivatives are vectors of length 1 tangent to the circle. Once you have these vectors you can find their outward pointing orthogonal complements. This gives you the flow you want.
 

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