Dating Advice for the Newbie Dater

[waht]

What does one mean by "not playing games"? As in video games?

Nah, you know those tests they throw out randomly at you. She said she doesn't do that, yea right.

Go out for a nice dinner and get to know one another. If there is a movie or concert the woman has been planning to see, perhaps suggest that for a date. Or just get together during the day for lunch or coffee. How well does one know this woman?

That's a sound idea, and what I will do. I know her from chat rooms, and a couple weeks of emailing. Just recently talked to her on the phone. Since we haven't met yet I'm not sure if that physical attraction will spark. Since something like 80% of communication between humans is through the body. I broke up with "so-called" some time ago, so I'm hoping to find someone, and she's all I could ask for and more.

Is she having a good time when she's around you? If so, just assume she's already attracted.

Yea I hope so.

 

[waht]

We dated for three months, then I proposed, and we've been together for 27+ years. We were engaged for 1 year since we lived 90 miles apart and went to different unversities.

You story is strikingly similar to how my parents met. They've been bumping into each other for over a year, then one day they went out on a date and got married in three months. They are still together 30+ years.

 

[Astronuc]

Nah, you know those tests they throw out randomly at you. She said she doesn't do that, yea right.

Ah, i.e. the games people play. Well, for me, I was never into games. I tended to be reserved and if I was interested - straight to the point. I was lucky in that about half the time, a girl who was interested would take the initiative.

Through high school and first couple of years of uni, my relationships with women were friendly and casual. I enjoyed their company, and had no shortage of women to date.

My problem was finding one with whom I could settle down.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1589876&postcount=22

 

[Poop-Loops]

Maybe. When one guy did that around me, I finally just asked, "Do you have ADD or something?" It was the same with me, that he didn't do that on the first dates, so I couldn't chalk it up to nervousness, it was more like he finally got more relaxed and let his guard down and then his annoying habits showed up. He was also someone who could never just sit and be quiet, so maybe you're onto something with the "afraid of silence" bit. I was quite content to sit quietly side-by-side at times, and even crave that sort of occasional opportunity to enjoy some quiet, and he would give this running commentary just to fill in the "dead airtime" it seemed.

You might have hit it, but I don't know why he'd think I'd enjoy rain inside my car pouring into my console and on me. He'd hold the button down so that I couldn't close the roof.

He was a brilliant scientist working in aids research and teaching chemical spectroscopy at a local university. Who would have known?

I'm just going by my own experiences (i.e. my own past behaviors). I've definitely had times (I used to have anxiety) where I was nervous about being somewhere or with someone and fell back on my perceived skills of being goofy/funny. Under stress you have a tendency to take it too far. Especially if you're used to people playfully saying "stop" and laughing. You just forget that sometimes people mean it.

Still, it's something you accept and learn from. I haven't done that in years, so I guess I learned to be "better" at social situations.

 

[binzing]

Yeah, I find "games" to be very annoying. Also, I don't even bother with "going out" if its just going to end in a few weeks, I think its stupid how these kids around me (my supposed "peers") do things like that. I see no point in doing something that isn't going to work out, most likely cause your completely different people.

 

[Huckleberry]

gee--that may be a reason why the guy didn't say anything and played along--


he would be an idiot if he didn't

It may be another reason why he felt compelled to tease the girlfriend also. He knew what's up.

 

[Moonbear]

You might have hit it, but I don't know why he'd think I'd enjoy rain inside my car pouring into my console and on me. He'd hold the button down so that I couldn't close the roof.

How childish! I'd probably have smacked him; I have very little tolerance for something like that if it comes from someone older than five years old. At the point where I and my car interior were getting rained on and he was holding the button so I couldn't put a stop to it, I'd have very likely smashed his fingers even...depending on how long it went on for, might have even left him to walk in the rain if he liked being rained on so much. Hopefully even the densest, most socially inept person could understand that pulling to the side of the road and being told to "GET OUT" in the rain is a clear sign to knock it off.

 

[Cyrus]

Most men, by and far, don't know anything about women. I feel sorry for you Evo and Moonbear. I hear stories like this from my female friends all the time. One time a group of us went out for dinner and one of the girls ex-was with us. He introduced himself to a friend of ours that arrived late by saying "Hi, we used to date, and pointed at her". Talk about being a moron. The table got awkwardly silent after he said that for a moment.

More than twice I've had women at bars come up and complain to me about loser guys trying to buy them drinks and not going away.

I think you should be allowed to give these idiots a swift kick in the groin so they learn to man up.

 

[Moonbear]

Most men, by and far, don't know anything about women.

I don't know if some of these are even just not knowing anything about women, but more just being clueless idiots when it comes to any form of socialization.

More than twice I've had women at bars come up and complain to me about loser guys trying to buy them drinks and not going away.

I think you should be allowed to give these idiots a swift kick in the groin so they learn to man up.

Yeah, it's one thing for them to offer, but another to keep sticking around and trying to offer again if I already said, "No thanks." Or, the ones that just start dancing with you while you're dancing with friends, and keeps following you around after you've made it clear you're not interested and keep turning away from him.

Why are so many men so socially inept? Do I only notice it in men because I'm only looking for men? Do men run into so many socially inept women too?

 

[Astronuc]

Why are so many men so socially inept? Do I only notice it in men because I'm only looking for men?

Probably because many parents do not teach their sons (or daughters) how to interact socially, or perhaps parents provide bad examples.

Do men run into so many socially inept women too?

Possibly. Perhaps the numbers are equal.

I think popular culture reflected in TV/Movies has has a detrimental effect on the ability of many people to socialize.

 

[Cyrus]

Im going to have to disagree with you on that one. I am would bet money that most Guys, not women, are socially inept.

The guy who said that said a buch of other stuff that just made my jaw drop on how clueless he was. He was beyond pathetic. I even asked her, why do you hang out around that loser. She said, "hes not a loser". I told her I am sorry your right, he's a pathetic loser.

 

[Astronuc]

Im going to have to disagree with you on that one. I would bet money that most Guys, not women, are socially inept.

Possibly.

I was having a discussion about societal expectations earlier today. It was initiated by a comment concerning that fact that one woman observed a couple. The man was dressed in a nice suit, which covered most of his skin. In contrast, the woman was wearing a revealing outfit, apparently showing her shoulder, arms, and some of her bust. The comment was that the woman was bowing to societal expectations, which dictates that she has to look attractive in public, i.e. she has to make her man look good. I thought - 'What nonsense!' But then it was explained to me that's how it is for women (or some women).

The guy who said that said a bunch of other stuff that just made my jaw drop on how clueless he was. He was beyond pathetic. I even asked her, why do you hang out around that loser. She said, "hes not a loser". I told her I am sorry your right, he's a pathetic loser.

But that's one guy.

 

[Cyrus]

If I am going to wear something nice, I expect the woman I am with to wear a nice dress as well.

But, I don't really understand what the debate was. Can you expand more?

But that's one guy.

He was a frat boy. They should have some idea of social interaction.

 

[Astronuc]

If I am going to wear something nice, I expect the woman I am with to wear a nice dress as well.

But, I don't really understand what the debate was. Can you expand more?

I think the point was that the man was wearing something that didn't show off his physique, whereas woman was wearing a 'revealing' outfit, and one that would leave her vulnerable to the environment, particularly if the car broke down. So the argument was that the woman felt pressure to display her attractiveness in public (as in a trophy) and the man did not.

I think the dress had thin straps, e.g. like the ones shown on this page.
http://www.elegantmart.com/

He was a frat boy. They should have some idea of social interaction.

Perhaps with other frat boys.

I never could understand the fraternity brother/sorority sister culture. It's foreign to me. I was pretty much a loner from kindergarten through university.

 

[Poop-Loops]

He was a frat boy. They should have some idea of social interaction.

Frat boys? They are living proof that any idiot can get into college these days.

I'd call it a miracle if he could feed himself. Expecting him to behave well around others is just cruel, though.

 

[Cyrus]

I think the point was that the man was wearing something that didn't show off his physique, whereas woman was wearing a 'revealing' outfit, and one that would leave her vulnerable to the environment, particularly if the car broke down. So the argument was that the woman felt pressure to display her attractiveness in public (as in a trophy) and the man did not.

I don't see why that's an issue though? Men and women are not equal (Im not talking about being treated as equals). She can wear an overcoat if she's going out and its cold, or an umbrella if its raining (Held by the man, of course). These are social norms. The cut of the dress is the womans choice, no normal man says to his date/wife "Your wearing this dress!"

Why does the man have to wear many layers and be hot in a suit in the summer time while she is in an open dress? The answer to both of these questions is simple: style.

Perhaps with other frat boys.

I never could understand the fraternity brother/sorority sister culture. It's foreign to me. I was pretty much a loner from kindergarten through university.

Not my thing either.

 

[SticksandStones]

I think popular culture reflected in TV/Movies has has a detrimental effect on the ability of many people to socialize.

I'm interested in hearing your reasoning behind this.

I have lacked basic social skills for sometime. The two major reasons being:
1) I was not allowed to play with or hang out with my friends outside of school until high school. This, of course, left me out of the loop in any social circle I was part of at the time. I never got a chance to observe social behavior outside of school for many years.
2) My parents taught me to basically "hate" people. They can't stand being around people and socializing, and I picked up on it.

Granted, most people probably don't have this issue, but it could describe a small minority.

 

[Moonbear]

I think the point was that the man was wearing something that didn't show off his physique, whereas woman was wearing a 'revealing' outfit, and one that would leave her vulnerable to the environment, particularly if the car broke down. So the argument was that the woman felt pressure to display her attractiveness in public (as in a trophy) and the man did not.

I doubt his nice suit was going to be much more help if the car broke down. There are less revealing outfits women can wear to dress up for an evening out too, so as long as she was choosing for herself, I don't see a problem there. What was the climate anyway? Was she being silly wearing something skimpy without a coat in cold weather, or was it a warm climate where that might have been perfectly comfortable and the guy in the suit was the one inappropriately dressed for the temperature? (Not sure if you saw this in NY or CA.) If she was out in a skimpy dress in cold weather without a jacket, she's just an idiot. There's no societal pressure to do that...though, what about the pressure on guys in a situation like that to give up their jacket to keep the woman warm? If a guy dresses appropriately for the temperature and wears a warm jacket, and a woman runs out in some skimpy dress without a coat, why should the man have to give up his coat for her?

 

[Astronuc]

I doubt his nice suit was going to be much more help if the car broke down. There are less revealing outfits women can wear to dress up for an evening out too, so as long as she was choosing for herself, I don't see a problem there. What was the climate anyway? Was she being silly wearing something skimpy without a coat in cold weather, or was it a warm climate where that might have been perfectly comfortable and the guy in the suit was the one inappropriately dressed for the temperature? (Not sure if you saw this in NY or CA.) If she was out in a skimpy dress in cold weather without a jacket, she's just an idiot. There's no societal pressure to do that...though, what about the pressure on guys in a situation like that to give up their jacket to keep the woman warm? If a guy dresses appropriately for the temperature and wears a warm jacket, and a woman runs out in some skimpy dress without a coat, why should the man have to give up his coat for her?

The initial story about the couple was on a radio program, which apparently touched on the difference between the generations of older and younger women in the awareness of women's rights and the work that went into obtaining equal rights.

In the discussion, which became somewhat of a slightly heated disagreement, I raised the point that "the woman chose to wear what she did", but I was told that women was responding to societal expectations. Perhaps some women do, but IMO, people largely choose to conform or submit to societal pressures or roles.

I would expect anyone who was lightly dressed, e.g. an evening gown, would wear a coat or jacket as appropriate. I don't know what the climate was with respect to the couple mentioned on the radio program.

I've given up my coat or jacket to someone who was cold.

 

[Cyrus]

The initial story about the couple was on a radio program, which apparently touched on the difference between the generations of older and younger women in the awareness of women's rights and the work that went into obtaining equal rights.

In the discussion, which became somewhat of a slightly heated disagreement, I raised the point that "the woman chose to wear what she did", but I was told that women was responding to societal expectations. Perhaps some women do, but IMO, people largely choose to conform or submit to societal pressures or roles.

When a man goes out dressed nice, its expected that his date does as well, considering that its a formal event. If she does not want to dress up, she can simply stay at home. She lives in a society, and so does the man. There are consequences that result. I think there are far more important thinks to worry/argue about than this though. Honestly, who cares how revealing her dress is.
<<Warning Comment not PC [but I don't care, I am not a PC kinda guy]>>>(Probably a bunch of ugly women with hairy armpits worried about equality burning their bras.)

I've given up my coat or jacket to someone who was cold.

I would do it, very begrudgingly, and say to her "I TOLD You to bring your coat "...because now I have to be cold due to her lack of thinking.

Were you arguing with a woman or a man about this?

 

[Astronuc]

Were you arguing with a woman or a man about this?

I was having a discussion, then disagreement, with a woman. Most of the women I know are older than me, and many of them are what one might call - 'liberated' - although from what I'm not sure.

When a man goes out dressed nice, its expected that his date does as well, considering that its a formal event. If she does not want to dress up, she can simply stay at home. She lives in a society, and so does the man. There are consequences that result. I think there are far more important thinks to worry/argue about than this though. Honestly, who cares how revealing her dress is.

A lot of people (both men and women) like to get dressed up when they go out. That's fine, but it ain't me. I don't care to dress 'nice'. I'd rather dress comfortably.

I'll put on a suit for an occasion, but if I want to have a nice relaxed time, I don't want to be dressed up. I'd prefer business casual, perhaps a tie, but I'd prefer blue jeans and T-shirt.

Personally, I find dressing up to be silly and pointless. I can't stand hard shoes. And IMO, high-heeled shoes look ridiculous.

As for how revealing a dress. Over the years, some women I've known complained about the pressure to wear 'sexy' dresses or high heeled shoes. I expressed my thoughts - "then don't wear that stuff". My comments were not appreciated.

 

[Cyrus]

Personally, I find dressing up to be silly and pointless.

I think this notion is generally false. Dressing up represents the local culture of a place. Style changes from city to city even in the states. Dressing nice does not mean dressing uncomfortably.

 

[Evo]

I always enjoyed dressing up for parties. I had a large assortment of cocktail dresses and gowns. I had to go to many formal parties and honestly, dressing up was quite fun. I had at least one black tie affair a month that required an evening gown.

 

[Moonbear]

I think this notion is generally false. Dressing up represents the local culture of a place. Style changes from city to city even in the states. Dressing nice does not mean dressing uncomfortably.

I agree. I really can't wear high heels. I have two pairs of dancing shoes with low-ish heels I can wear, but most heels cause too much pain (I used to wear them and enjoyed it since I'm short and they made me look taller, but after an ankle injury years ago, was never able to wear most heels comfortably again...the tendons just won't cooperate). Instead, I have some really cute ballet flats that look equally good with casual pants and nice dresses that I get compliments on every time I wear them, and I don't have to risk my toes taking my shoes off to dance (though the dancing shoes work for that too...they're much better padded and supported than usual high heels). I've never had anyone give me a hard time over wearing comfortable shoes (I have made mistakes and worn shoes I THOUGHT would be comfortable that turned out not to be so comfortable with a lot of walking, and then got a bit of teasing from the person I was walking with about women wearing shoes for looks rather than comfort knowing full well that wasn't my plan).

 

[Cyrus]

http://www.skechers.com/

They have good shoes and they are comfortable and affordable.

http://www.kennethcole.com/

They also have really good shoes, but expensive.

 

[Moonbear]

http://www.skechers.com/

They have good shoes and they are comfortable and affordable.

I didn't know they made anything other than sneakers! I usually wait until I'm visiting a city to buy shoes. My one friend makes fun of me that I always go shoe shopping when I visit, but it's the one place I know I can find shoes that are both stylish AND comfortable for doing a lot of walking.

 

[rewebster]

I didn't know they made anything other than sneakers! I usually wait until I'm visiting a city to buy shoes. My one friend makes fun of me that I always go shoe shopping when I visit, but it's the one place I know I can find shoes that are both stylish AND comfortable for doing a lot of walking.

it sounds like your 100 miles north of International Fall (not that Canada is desolate everywhere)

 

[Astronuc]

I always enjoyed dressing up for parties. I had a large assortment of cocktail dresses and gowns. I had to go to many formal parties and honestly, dressing up was quite fun. I had at least one black tie affair a month that required an evening gown.

Yeah, I remember the black outfit. But then you'd look gorgeous in anything you'd wear.

IMO, Evo, Moonbear, MIH and the PF sisters look nice in anything they'd wear, so fancy clothes are not necessary.

I've always found suits too confining, and for footwear, I prefer moccasins or nothing. For dressy shoes, I prefer soft leather at most.

 

[NateTG]

Dressing up is, ultimately about looking and feeling good. It's foolish to voluntarily wear clothes (or do anything else) that doesn't bring out the good things in oneself.
(Question for the grammer nazis - should that have been "don't" in the line above.)
There are situations that call for particular clothing - I would not recommend welding or long distance motorcycle riding in shorts and a t-shirt, and formal events do have their uniforms.

In my, admittedly limited experience, the only part of a suit that is particularly restrictive is the jacket, which can be shed fairly easily. Button-up shirts, suspenders, belts, and slacks can all be quite comfortable -- in my experience slacks and button-ups are more comfortable than jeans which tend to be heavier and knit shirts.

High heels are popular for the changes in posture and gait they produce as much as anything else.

 

[Astronuc]

Dressing up is, ultimately about looking and feeling good.

Sure - that's blue jeans and T-shirt for me - and bare feet.