Dealing with Undefined Values in Calculus: A Lesson in Limits

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The discussion focuses on the challenge of dealing with undefined values in calculus, particularly when calculating the rate of change of distance between two points as they approach collision. The main issue arises when both the distance and its derivative equal zero at the time of collision, leading to an undefined division. Participants suggest using limits to resolve this, drawing parallels to the limit definition of derivatives, where direct evaluation at a point may be undefined but can be approached through limits. The analogy of a function with a removable discontinuity illustrates how limits can provide a valid answer despite the initial undefined form. Ultimately, the consensus emphasizes the importance of limits in calculus to navigate situations involving undefined values.
archaic
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This is not to ask for a solution, rather I want comments on the rigor of the step. Thank you for your time!
rr.jpg

The graph shows a system of two points at ##t## and ##t+dt##, it is a bit exaggerated of course.
The upper point is moving strictly in the ##x## direction and has a constant velocity ##u##, while the lower point is always moving towards the upper point with constant velocity ##v>u##. I want to find the rate of change of the distance ##\mathcal{L}(t)## which separates them (to find the time of collision ##\tau##).

Keeping in mind that ##\cos(\pi-\theta)=-\cos(\theta)## and the cosines' law:
$$\begin{align*}
\mathcal{L}^2(t+\Delta t)&\approx(u\Delta t)^2+(\mathcal{L}(t)-v\Delta t)^2+2(u\Delta t)(\mathcal{L}(t)-v\Delta t)\cos(\theta(t))\\
&\approx(u\Delta t)^2+\mathcal{L}^2(t)-2v\mathcal{L}(t)\Delta t+(v\Delta t)^2+2u\mathcal{L}(t)\cos(\theta(t))\Delta t-2uv\cos(\theta(t))(\Delta t)^2
\end{align*}$$
$$\begin{align*}
\mathcal{L}^2(t+\Delta t)-\mathcal{L}^2(t)&\approx(u\Delta t)^2-2v\mathcal{L}(t)\Delta t+(v\Delta t)^2+2u\mathcal{L}(t)\cos(\theta(t))\Delta t-2uv\cos(\theta(t))(\Delta t)^2\\
\frac{\mathcal{L}^2(t+\Delta t)-\mathcal{L}^2(t)}{\Delta t}&\approx u^2\Delta t-2v\mathcal{L}(t)+v^2\Delta t+2u\mathcal{L}(t)\cos(\theta(t))-2uv\cos(\theta(t))\Delta t
\end{align*}$$
Now let ##\Delta t\to 0##, we have:
$$\begin{align*}
\frac{d}{dt}\mathcal{L}^2(t)&=-2v\mathcal{L}(t)+2u\mathcal{L}(t)\cos(\theta(t))\\
\Leftrightarrow 2\mathcal{L}(t)\mathcal{L}'(t)&=-2v\mathcal{L}(t)+2u\mathcal{L}(t)\cos(\theta(t))\\
\Leftrightarrow \mathcal{L}'(t)&=-v+u\cos(\theta(t))
\end{align*}$$
My problem is here, when ##t=\tau##, ##\mathcal{L}(\tau)=\mathcal{L}'(\tau)=0## and the division is then undefined. How can I go around this?
 
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archaic said:
... and the division is then undefined
I don't see this as a problem. In the definition of the derivative of f at a point x0, you have this limit:
$$\lim_{h \to 0}\frac{f(x_0 + h) - f(x_0)} h$$
When h = 0, the fraction is undefined, but that is the whole idea of defining the derivative in terms of a limit.
 
Mark44 said:
I don't see this as a problem. In the definition of the derivative of f at a point x0, you have this limit:
$$\lim_{h \to 0}\frac{f(x_0 + h) - f(x_0)} h$$
When h = 0, the fraction is undefined, but that is the whole idea of defining the derivative in terms of a limit.
Oh no, not that. I'am talking about the division by the length in the last step.
 
Your equation will be valid as ##\mathcal L (t)## approaches 0.
 
Mark44 said:
Your equation will be valid as ##\mathcal L (t)## approaches 0.
How can I have a definite answer then? If I consider the simplification true when ##t=\tau##, the answer is correct.
 
Your question seems to me to be similar to this:
If ##f(x) = \frac{x^2 - 1}{x - 1}##, what is f(1)?
Well, f(1) is undefined, because both numerator and denominator are zero when x = 1.
But, by using limits, we can determine that ##\lim_{x \to 1} = \lim_{x \to 1}\frac{x^2 - 1}{x - 1} = \lim_{x \to 1} \frac{(x - 1)(x + 1)}{x - 1} = \lim_{x \to 1}x + 1 = 2##.
Clearly if x = 1, cancalling x - 1 from numerator and denominator isn't valid, but for any other value of x, ##\frac{(x - 1)(x + 1)}{x - 1} = x + 1##
 
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Mark44 said:
Your question seems to me to be similar to this:
If ##f(x) = \frac{x^2 - 1}{x - 1}##, what is f(1)?
Well, f(1) is undefined, because both numerator and denominator are zero when x = 1.
But, by using limits, we can determine that ##\lim_{x \to 1} = \lim_{x \to 1}\frac{x^2 - 1}{x - 1} = \lim_{x \to 1} \frac{(x - 1)(x + 1)}{x - 1} = \lim_{x \to 1}x + 1 = 2##.
Clearly if x = 1, cancalling x - 1 from numerator and denominator isn't valid, but for any other value of x, ##\frac{(x - 1)(x + 1)}{x - 1} = x + 1##
i.e the "correct" way to answer the problem is by canceling inside the limit.
 

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